MAF Rate -> Horsepower
10-20-2002, 10:01 PM
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Re: MAF Rate -> Horsepower </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by SJH:
<strong>are you not a bit concerned about all that knock retard you are showing? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> Geez I would be taking that VERY seriously.
Because if the engine is in any sort of detonation of course you'll be way down on power.
O2's also look to lean IMO.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">try richening up your car to see if that helps the detonation the extra fuel can cool off the clyinder temps and reduce detonation.
what plugs are you running?
<strong>are you not a bit concerned about all that knock retard you are showing? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> Geez I would be taking that VERY seriously.
Because if the engine is in any sort of detonation of course you'll be way down on power.
O2's also look to lean IMO.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">try richening up your car to see if that helps the detonation the extra fuel can cool off the clyinder temps and reduce detonation.
what plugs are you running?
10-21-2002, 10:54 AM
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Re: MAF Rate -> Horsepower Hey Steve . . . thanks for the reply. First off, let me explain a couple 'o' things. Yesterday morning was the 1st COOL morning we've had here in AZ, so that will definitely affect my O2's. I also just disconnected the Stage II computer, and I just dumped the stock SS exhaust for 2.5" true duals. The car has not been running with KR or O2's like that consistently, I just made these two runs and didn't even have a chance to look at them, I just wanted to get them posted while I was away for the day.
I figured ( as Nickn20 said ) that I would start by richening it up. I guess the computer will have to get plugged back in again ( getting LS1-Edit soon ). I am running TR6 plugs gapped at .035.
About KR; it seems like there's a lot of confusion about when you have to worry about it. I've heard many people say that don't worry about anything under 4. I have high 3's to 4. So which is it? Anything under 2? I'm confused. And if I have 4, do I want to pull 4 to clear it up? Is it a 1-1 relationship?
- Dug
I figured ( as Nickn20 said ) that I would start by richening it up. I guess the computer will have to get plugged back in again ( getting LS1-Edit soon ). I am running TR6 plugs gapped at .035.
About KR; it seems like there's a lot of confusion about when you have to worry about it. I've heard many people say that don't worry about anything under 4. I have high 3's to 4. So which is it? Anything under 2? I'm confused. And if I have 4, do I want to pull 4 to clear it up? Is it a 1-1 relationship?
- Dug
10-21-2002, 03:26 PM
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Re: MAF Rate -> Horsepower 4 degrees at wot that does not taper down is something to really worry about.
If you look in the newest version of ls1edit, you'll see 4 degrees is the max the factory set to pull at WOT.
in the MAX KR VS SPEED table in PE mode, you see it is set at 4 degrees max.
That is on a 98 f-body.
The c5 allows more KR to be pulled.
You can change this with ls1edit up to 15 or so.
But right now 4 degrees is your max so be careful.
I don't look so much at the amount of KR.
I look to see if it decays during the run.
Yours was not, it was continous. That almost certainly was real detonation that continued on during the run.
Yes richening it up is a good point to start.
Steve
If you look in the newest version of ls1edit, you'll see 4 degrees is the max the factory set to pull at WOT.
in the MAX KR VS SPEED table in PE mode, you see it is set at 4 degrees max.
That is on a 98 f-body.
The c5 allows more KR to be pulled.
You can change this with ls1edit up to 15 or so.
But right now 4 degrees is your max so be careful.
I don't look so much at the amount of KR.
I look to see if it decays during the run.
Yours was not, it was continous. That almost certainly was real detonation that continued on during the run.
Yes richening it up is a good point to start.
Steve
10-21-2002, 04:31 PM
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Re: MAF Rate -> Horsepower OK, that makes sense . . . I just did a little bit of tuning . . . I've got my O2's consistently above .900 now, right around .910-.915. I did that first until I got the O2's looking good, then I started pulling timing. I am pulling as much as 6 degrees of timing now at 4000-5500 rpm, and I'm still seeing knock as high as 3.9. I don't get it. My WOT timing now at 4500rpm is now only at 15.5, yet I'm still seeing lots of knock. I know my LTRIMS are showing lean at idle and part throttle, in around +15%. From what I understand, until I get those down to 0 or slightly lower, I'm wasting my time with the rest. Is that correct? Also keep in mind that right now it's about 83F out, and I only have 91 octane that I can get at the pump. Again, 5psi. And since I've pulled timing, my MAF has gone down from 46.5 to 42.7. I don't know what to do next???
- Dug
<small>[ October 21, 2002, 04:34 PM: Message edited by: ChevyNo1 ]</small>
- Dug
<small>[ October 21, 2002, 04:34 PM: Message edited by: ChevyNo1 ]</small>
10-22-2002, 01:45 AM
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Re: MAF Rate -> Horsepower </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by ChevyNo1:
<strong>OK, that makes sense . . . I just did a little bit of tuning . . . I've got my O2's consistently above .900 now, right around .910-.915. I did that first until I got the O2's looking good, then I started pulling timing. I am pulling as much as 6 degrees of timing now at 4000-5500 rpm, and I'm still seeing knock as high as 3.9. I don't get it. My WOT timing now at 4500rpm is now only at 15.5, yet I'm still seeing lots of knock. I know my LTRIMS are showing lean at idle and part throttle, in around +15%. From what I understand, until I get those down to 0 or slightly lower, I'm wasting my time with the rest. Is that correct? Also keep in mind that right now it's about 83F out, and I only have 91 octane that I can get at the pump. Again, 5psi. And since I've pulled timing, my MAF has gone down from 46.5 to 42.7. I don't know what to do next???
- Dug</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">if your Ltrims are not around 0 or slightly negative it upsets your PE vs RPM a little bit so the A/F is not steady accross the RPM band.... this is what I have observed.....
as far as the knock not changing after pulling timming do this, add a full tank of the highest unlead fuel you can find, I use 104.5 and then autotap, if the knock is still there we can almost rule out detonation.... unless something severely is wrong, but im sure you would be able to tell. always staying at 3.9-4 degrees, makes me think you have a bad knock sensor perhaps.... so do the octane and autotap and get back to us buddy.
<strong>OK, that makes sense . . . I just did a little bit of tuning . . . I've got my O2's consistently above .900 now, right around .910-.915. I did that first until I got the O2's looking good, then I started pulling timing. I am pulling as much as 6 degrees of timing now at 4000-5500 rpm, and I'm still seeing knock as high as 3.9. I don't get it. My WOT timing now at 4500rpm is now only at 15.5, yet I'm still seeing lots of knock. I know my LTRIMS are showing lean at idle and part throttle, in around +15%. From what I understand, until I get those down to 0 or slightly lower, I'm wasting my time with the rest. Is that correct? Also keep in mind that right now it's about 83F out, and I only have 91 octane that I can get at the pump. Again, 5psi. And since I've pulled timing, my MAF has gone down from 46.5 to 42.7. I don't know what to do next???
- Dug</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">if your Ltrims are not around 0 or slightly negative it upsets your PE vs RPM a little bit so the A/F is not steady accross the RPM band.... this is what I have observed.....
as far as the knock not changing after pulling timming do this, add a full tank of the highest unlead fuel you can find, I use 104.5 and then autotap, if the knock is still there we can almost rule out detonation.... unless something severely is wrong, but im sure you would be able to tell. always staying at 3.9-4 degrees, makes me think you have a bad knock sensor perhaps.... so do the octane and autotap and get back to us buddy.
10-22-2002, 11:27 AM
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Re: MAF Rate -> Horsepower I will try that . . . although I'm pretty sure I did this last time I was at the track. I put 5 gallons of 100 in with about 1.5 gallons of 91. I believe I was still showing knock. I can't hear any knock, so it may be false . . .
- Dug
- Dug
10-22-2002, 10:42 PM
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Re: MAF Rate -> Horsepower </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by ChevyNo1:
<strong>I will try that . . . although I'm pretty sure I did this last time I was at the track. I put 5 gallons of 100 in with about 1.5 gallons of 91. I believe I was still showing knock. I can't hear any knock, so it may be false . . .
- Dug</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">its probably false man, look for any rattles and vibrations..... if you cant find any try replacing your knock sensors? does anyone know how the computer acts if the knock sensor is disconnected? I heard it takes 4 degrees out automatically?
<strong>I will try that . . . although I'm pretty sure I did this last time I was at the track. I put 5 gallons of 100 in with about 1.5 gallons of 91. I believe I was still showing knock. I can't hear any knock, so it may be false . . .
- Dug</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">its probably false man, look for any rattles and vibrations..... if you cant find any try replacing your knock sensors? does anyone know how the computer acts if the knock sensor is disconnected? I heard it takes 4 degrees out automatically?
10-23-2002, 09:41 AM
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Re: MAF Rate -> Horsepower yeah, if you just remove the sensors it just pulls 4 degrees.
If you have ls1edit you can totally control them, alter the total retard, how sensitive, rate of attack, rate of decay etc etc..
Take a good look at your plugs for any signs of detonation.
If you have ls1edit you can totally control them, alter the total retard, how sensitive, rate of attack, rate of decay etc etc..
Take a good look at your plugs for any signs of detonation.
10-23-2002, 11:15 AM
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Re: MAF Rate -> Horsepower Will do . . . just for my edification, what telltale signs would be really apparent on the plugs Steve? I'm going to get some 100 tomorrow and see what happens . . .
- Dug
- Dug
10-23-2002, 01:01 PM
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Re: MAF Rate -> Horsepower serious detonation would be damaged or melted side electrodes.
Mild detonation will show as black specks or peppering on the ceramic insulator, A little worse will show up as tiny little *****.This is what you should probably look closely for.
If the side electrodes are greenish or bluish they are getting to hot.
Steve
Mild detonation will show as black specks or peppering on the ceramic insulator, A little worse will show up as tiny little *****.This is what you should probably look closely for.
If the side electrodes are greenish or bluish they are getting to hot.
Steve
10-28-2002, 10:31 AM
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Re: MAF Rate -> Horsepower OK, did some tests over the weekend with 100 . . . no false knock! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> I'm actually happy about that, fighting demons I can't see I was not looking forward to!!
So, basically leaving it at 5psi with 1 gallon of 91 and 4.5 gallons of 100. I got no knock. I bumped it up to 7psi. I didn't get knock until around 5000rpm as it was running leaner up top. Today I am going to richen it up on top, I'm sure the KR will go away. Definitely works MUCH better when there's no knock!
- Dug
So, basically leaving it at 5psi with 1 gallon of 91 and 4.5 gallons of 100. I got no knock. I bumped it up to 7psi. I didn't get knock until around 5000rpm as it was running leaner up top. Today I am going to richen it up on top, I'm sure the KR will go away. Definitely works MUCH better when there's no knock!
- Dug
10-29-2002, 03:44 AM
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Re: MAF Rate -> Horsepower </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by ChevyNo1:
<strong>OK, did some tests over the weekend with 100 . . . no false knock! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> I'm actually happy about that, fighting demons I can't see I was not looking forward to!!
So, basically leaving it at 5psi with 1 gallon of 91 and 4.5 gallons of 100. I got no knock. I bumped it up to 7psi. I didn't get knock until around 5000rpm as it was running leaner up top. Today I am going to richen it up on top, I'm sure the KR will go away. Definitely works MUCH better when there's no knock!
- Dug</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">there ya go man, watch that A/F to keep your EGTs low and detonation down.
<strong>OK, did some tests over the weekend with 100 . . . no false knock! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> I'm actually happy about that, fighting demons I can't see I was not looking forward to!!
So, basically leaving it at 5psi with 1 gallon of 91 and 4.5 gallons of 100. I got no knock. I bumped it up to 7psi. I didn't get knock until around 5000rpm as it was running leaner up top. Today I am going to richen it up on top, I'm sure the KR will go away. Definitely works MUCH better when there's no knock!
- Dug</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">there ya go man, watch that A/F to keep your EGTs low and detonation down.
