yes the 74 that backed out will be kicking themselves in the head for sure, cuz now its 500 more hehehe.

 

You guys that are hackin' on my boy Rob are nuts. I met Rob shortly after I bought my Z28 and he has been nothing but professional and extremely honest in how he runs his business. I buy as many car parts from Rob as I can because of his integrity and willingness to please his customers. My car is the first production run of the LS1 single turbo and I can't tell you how excited I am to have Rob and his outstanding staff working on my car. I know for a fact that in the end when the car is finished I will be incredibly pleased with the results because Rob won't have it any other way.

Stay tuned......the dyno results are coming soon.

 

Hey Rob, Im not compairing your kit with my kit, I just wanted to see, Everything is diferant!!! EXAMPLE I have seen 2 identical cars 2001 SS camaros dyno on the same day, Both with the same mods( to the T) loud mouth, lid, SLP MAF same car same motors same oil And 1,800 mile diferance, One was 303rwhp and one was 338rwhp so point here is everything is differant so I was curios on differant aplications!! Also, I agree with the money thing I do HVAC and we wont start a job without a 50% dep ( we have got screwed to many times)

 

Here's the link: <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="gr_images/icons/cool.gif" />

http://www.ls1motorsports.com/Single_Turbo.htm

 

I don't get this thread. People are such ********. Rob is doing the ls1 community a big favor by doing the r&d and then selling it in a kit for peanuts. 6000+ is not peanuts but I meant his profit is. I run a small business and understand his pain with the attitudes he gets. The CAS kit is probably a nice kit as well and he's not giving it away either. Some of you folks need to grow up and realize the way things are. Rob is in business to make MONEY...friends maybe but MONEY first. If you want to get his attention and have EVERY question answered, call with your credit card number ready...MONEY talks and you know the rest.

 

My personal experience with rob has been great. I have ordered many parts from his company and recieved them promptly. I once called rob and spoke with him for over an hour about FI kits (i.e blower and turbos) and he answered all my questions. Most people would try to sell you something but rob didn't. He is a good honest guy .
-Jasen

ATI Procharger F1 blower 9psi boost,8rib pullies
MTI T1 cam,12 bolt moser, Flp's
Dyno 510rwhp 472rwtq (D1sc blower with 5psi)

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Rob Raymer:
<strong>Hmmm...could it be..JESUS maybe?? (<-in my best church lady voice)</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Another thing we have in common... Appreciation for spiritual things!

You'd be amazed (or maybe not) at how many people wouldn't have a clue, and that's a shame. They're losing out on true wisdom.

SC-

 

Rob is even a sponsor on both sites.

He gets to pay to be insulted by someone who can't even spell. I would have a lot less tolerance than he has demonstrated.

10 people came through. That's bad. I imagine there would be red ink on that. Hopefully more will come through once people start reporting results. There's damn few people in this world willing to R&D systems for our cars and sponsor these sites. Good luck.

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Chasgiv3, you said, "NO MONEY should be given as a deposit for ANY reason to ANYONE. Instead monies should be given at time of sale. If the vendor can't afford to front the money to buy the parts then it's clear that this vendor could go bankrupt at ANY moment and you could kiss your money goodbye!"
I'm sorry, but that logic simply doesn't work. What is clear, is that I could have gone bankrupt if I took everyone's word and built 84 kits! We aren't talking about a "shelved" item here. We are talking about a CUSTOM BUILT kit. Nobody custom builds anything without some form of financial commitment on the customer's part.

i.e., Agostino charges 50% up front when you order a head and cam package, or engine. Why do you think they do that? Because a lot of people have bigger mouths than checking accounts.

I'd like to know who special orders parts (custom built parts at that), and doesn't ask for a deposit?

Well, I gotta go. I have to get back to planning my big escape with the $10,000 I took in deposits. Bankruptcy court awaits...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Like I said I wasn't exactly sure what you were doing asking for a deposit or how much. If it's a deposit to start building something completely custom immediately then I can certainly see it. In other words ordering parts etc. You certainly need to protect yourself from a customer backing out.

I guess I wrongly assumed that this would be a standard kit (at least 70% of it) that could be copied and you could afford to keep 2 turbos on hand depending on your options for Turbos. This way when you get an order you simply pick from stock and ship it. Although I can certainly see wanting to order in bulk for turbochargers. I've seen the price break I can get by ordering 4 turbos at a time. Let alone 304 stainless or god forbid 321. I agree that custom work requires a deposit especially when custom hardware must be purchased, machined etc. As long as the customizing/ordering happens right away. I guess the Incon deal (gone bad) has left me hyper-sensitive to giving any money up front. the difference here being that your not funding development with the deposit at all.

 

chasgiv3,

The Incon fiasco left a lot of people wary (not to mention many burnt <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="gr_images/icons/mad.gif" /> ).

You are a reasonable guy and I certainly understand your point about getting something when it's paid for.

High Performance Associates sent me a transmission last week and didn't charge my card for it until it shipped. But, like you mention, it was in stock and just needed mod'ing to a Stage II tranny.

I'm glad so many guys stepped up to the plate about Rob. I, for one, am glad there are people like him, Kenny, and a few others out there willing to R&D expensive items like performance motors and FI, when the return profit is qucstionable or negibible.

See ya!

 

Hey Mark C.:

I see that you feel the same as I:

"If four cylinders with turbo is good, then eight cylinders with turbo is WAY better."

<Now if I could only get that AWD system under the Camaro.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> >

SC-

<small>[ November 21, 2002, 11:56 AM: Message edited by: SS00Blue ]</small>

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by SS00Blue:
<strong>Hey Mark C.:

I see that you feel the same as I:

"If four cylinders with turbo is good, then eight cylinders with turbo is WAY better."

<Now if I could only get that AWD system under the Camaro.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> >

SC-</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Naturally, I feel that a turbo should, at the maximum, be powered by 4 cylinders.

You know, its funny, I see a lot of people who owned early 90's Talons and the LS1 F-bodys. I always wondered why because the cars are so dissimilar.

Maybe its because in 1990 (I bought mine new in October '89) the Talon was absolutely the performance bang-for-the-buck car, like the LS1 F-body is today.

I'll certainly take AWD, but I would settle for the hugh intake and exhaust ports and valve size of that engine.

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Mark C:
<strong>Naturally, I feel that a turbo should, at the maximum, be powered by 4 cylinders.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Huh??? You do? Why F1 then? Why do LS1 turbo cars explode the paint, and doors, off of the Talons? I thought I was striking common ground, but your's is a totally off-the-wall statement.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Mark C:
<strong>Maybe its because in 1990 (I bought mine new in October '89) the Talon was absolutely the performance bang-for-the-buck car, like the LS1 F-body is today.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'll buy that. I remember the Talons, and except for the transfer case leak, weak transaxle, 3-bolt rear, weak alternator, puny turbo, lousy BCS arrangement, balance shafts that required removal, restrictive CAI, etc., they were great. (Like I don't know the laughable, inherent, under-engineered, weaknesses of the Talon.) The Camaro has been the "bang" car since it took over from the Mustang in '93.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Mark C:
<strong>I'll certainly take AWD, but I would settle for the hugh intake and exhaust ports and valve size of that engine.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The developer of the LS1 head (NOT GM, BTW) ported/flowed my 91 Talon head and the LS1 heads (not to mention the 3-valve for the C-6). The Mitsu heads are only marginally better at the limit of porting. Large ports = SLOW velocity and hurt perfomance under, in this case, 7k RPM.

Been there, done that...

SC-

PS- Sorry we didn't agree. I guess it's not that easy to find common ground with some folks...

 

Let's put it in perspective. Rob has designed an excellent kit for a community that will get a bang out of it. It's taken time to get the fit and quality to his deliverable standards. It takes time to get on the production schedules at shops that will be putting together these custom parts for the kits and small runs are never their priority. If it were as easy as going to Autozone, we'd all be driving Turbo cars. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

The aggressive goals for a spring/summer delivery were based on enthusiasm for the project and probably the thought that a good portion (call it 85%) of the R&D was all ready done on Rob's car. The lessons learned about how shops may schedule prototypes and what's invovled with working out production bugs will be important for the growth of this product in the future. Rob's car was a one of a kind R&D platform and it takes time to take that model and spec it for limited production versions.

The amount of time was simply more than some of the interested parties could wait with a hobby that has a limited season. Spring budgets get spent quickly for this hobby. I'm one of the gulity parties as the itch to spend my $6-8K of spring car money caused me move on and have a fun summer trying other things. Sometimes short term fun wins out over long term goals. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

That being said, with 10 potentially successful first run cars hitting the streets in the next few months, I think we will see a good chunk of the missing 74 orders next spring if we don't drive Rob crazy by then. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

People should realize that the similiarities between the LS1 Motorsports ramp up and Incon collapse are limited to the fact that they are turbo products. The smaller production runs (as opposed to 100+ deposits) will make it easier for Rob to manage the project. It will ensure that he doesn't make the mistake of trying sell the product at a loss in order to fund R&D for his next project. Another fact that should not go unnoticed is that the manufacturers, designer and probably most of the customers in this case will all be in the US and subject to US laws which offer all sides of the transaction more protection.

If Rob ever finds himself short of man power to assemble the kits and ship them (after all this is only one of many products and services he offers to a much wider customer base), all he has to do is ask and he'll have an army of LS1 fans loading up UPS trucks in a heartbeat.

Rick

 

Guys..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

Play nice!

BTW, In no way should LS1Motorsports or Rob be compared to Incon. Incon and Dave had a long history of "issues" in the mustang comunity before wondering over to our side of the fence.

Rob's got a reputable business, and a very involved R&D/Product nearing completion. $1k deposit may be nothing to sneeze at, but please consider if you (the individual) were to buy a T76 outright it'd cost you more then $1K.

Food for thought

<small>[ November 21, 2002, 12:47 PM: Message edited by: y2khawk ]</small>

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by SS00Blue:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Mark C:
<strong>Naturally, I feel that a turbo should, at the maximum, be powered by 4 cylinders.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Huh??? You do? Why F1 then? Why do LS1 turbo cars explode the paint, and doors, off of the Talons? I thought I was striking common ground, but your's is a totally off-the-wall statement.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm sorry, that was my cryptic sense of humour at work. The Talon has 1 turbo and 4 cyls, the Camaro has 2 turbos and 8 cyls, etc. I should have put a wink or smiley face next to it. I was by no means serious.

As to the head flowing, I'm surprised. Just by looking, the Mitsu appears to me to be better. I guess the funky LS1 shape is deceptively good.

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by MIGHTYMOUSE:
<strong>yes the 74 that backed out will be kicking themselves in the head for sure, cuz now its 500 more hehehe.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I was one of the people who backed out. It wasn't because I am a liar. It was because of two things.

1. I got on the list in February. Here it is November still no kits. I just want to see some kits out there and how they do on various cars.

2. I bought a bike in July since I had my money saved for a turbo kit that they thought would be done before then. So I spent the money on that.

Believe me I am still very interested in Rob's kit. As soon as my funds are back up around where I want them I am sure I will be making that call with credit card in hand. I mean how can you pass up on that much HP on tap.

Good luck Rob. In no way am I flaming you on this. You will just have to understand that $6500 doesn't come easy to me.

 

I'm not impressed by people that can't take constructive criticism. I wish everyone good luck with the kits. We all need good turbo kits and builders/tuners.