Noyzee

iTrader: (37)

I tried posting this on Ls1.com as well but it turned into a big deal (see "Anyone get their ls1 motorsport kit yet") But I was just wondering If anyone got it or how long befor they do, I just wanted to hear some results! Thanks <img border="0" alt="[fight]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_punch.gif" />

jleews6

iTrader: (2)

Noyzee how did you get a CAS twin kit? Is he still making them? I cant find any info on his web page.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Thanks
john

MIGHTYMOUSE

iTrader: (59)

i replied to the other post there, i feel bad that i didnt get to it before it got locked, i'd like to think i could have helped.

like i said there, none of the original orders have been completed yet short of the demo car, it should be any day now literally unless something else has caused a slow up.

i'm predicting very good results from the small turbo long as the motor holds together

also, you double posted this, you can click on the other one, go to edit, and click delete post.

<small>[ November 19, 2002, 05:36 PM: Message edited by: MIGHTYMOUSE ]</small>

MelloYellow

Even tho I know Rob is trying to deliver a quality affordable kit, I think it's bad business to get so much money in advance. It's scary. Anything can happen, including things beyond Rob's control. Lends itself to another Incon Pyramid possibility, even if unlikely or not intended.

Also, I was ALWAYS blown off when I asked for dyno results from the kit. I can't believe he won't even post the results of the prototype before lining up customers who have no idea of what the kit will deliver?!

You need to change the title of this post to something that makes sense and delete the dupe post also.

<small>[ November 19, 2002, 08:38 PM: Message edited by: MelloYellow ]</small>

Noyzee

iTrader: (37)

I got the CAS TT because Tom from speed inc hooked me up because I have done a lot with him but I know CAS is going to start production on the kit but he does need a couple more proto types to assur a good fit! And I know I did this post 2 times but not on purpose, And I am not a computer guy, I tried to deleat it but it wont let me??? Sorry! I was on for a kit from Rob but it didnt work out. But I am happy so far with the CAS kit and I know once they start production Speed inc will do installs and They are unreal at what they do, I would highly recomend Them for anything!!!! I had great luck with them. <img border="0" alt="[Fluffy]" title="" src="graemlins/fluffy.gif" />

Rob Raymer

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by MelloYellow:
<strong>Even tho I know Rob is trying to deliver a quality affordable kit, I think it's bad business to get so much money in advance. It's scary. Anything can happen, including things beyond Rob's control. Lends itself to another Incon Pyramid possibility, even if unlikely or not intended.

Also, I was ALWAYS blown off when I asked for dyno results from the kit. I can't believe he won't even post the results of the prototype before lining up customers who have no idea of what the kit will deliver?!
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">"So much money in advance"??? What are you taking about? $1000 deposit on a $6000 kit is a lot? Do you think vendors advance us the parts free? I have to pay for every part of the kit AT LEAST a month before anybody gets their kit. And as I've said before, we make virtually nothing on the kits at the $5999 price!

In example, we had 84 names of people who wanted turbo kits. They were "positive about buying one as soon as they were ready". Funny thing is, when I called all 84 people, only about 10 actually could come up with the deposit money. Keep in mind, EVERY ONE OF THESE PEOPLE ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY WANTED A KIT. So what would have happened if I simply took their word for it and ordered 84 turbos, wastegates, intercoolers, etc.? I would be broke and looking for a job.

I really resent the fact that you compared us to Incon. Incon funded their entire development with other peoples' money, paid in advance, with nothing more than a promise to build something. We didn't ask for a single dime until the kits were developed, and we were actually ready to order parts. BIG difference.

And as far as "blowing you off", that's not true either. I answered you multiple times! I told you Shawn has his dyno sheets, not me. I had Ed Wright fax them to me, but they were not legible when scanned. I asked Ed to snail mail me copies, but I haven't received them. I assume he's really busy, and probably slipped his mind. You are more than welcome to call Ed and ask him about it. Just because I don't have the dyno sheets in my hand, doesn't mean I'm lying, or that "customers have no idea of what the kit will deliver". There have been many people who have posted witnessing Shawn's car at the track, riding in it, and even witnessing the dyno runs.
FWIW, Shawn moved away last month, and I haven't been able to get a hold of him. But it's really up to Shawn whether or not he posts his dyno sheets. I told you what they were, and that should be sufficient. But if/when Ed sends them to me, I will scan them. If not, I'll post the results from the install we are currently doing now.

And Noyzee, we all understand you just want to compare our kit to yours. And in talking to you as many times as I have, I think you are also well aware of the fact that we haven't shipped any of the kits yet. Mightymouse has answered you several times now about it. And if you want to compare numbers, simply look at our website. The kit that went on Shawn's car is the same kit everyone else is getting. I'm quite sure the results will be basically the same for everyone.

smokinHawk

iTrader: (48)

Rob while your anwsering questions what octane was shawn running when he got dynoed with 9psi and also when he ran it to the track, Ive asked before but havent got an answer.

thanks.

-Jonathan

SS00Blue

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Rob Raymer:
<strong>"...we had 84 names of people who wanted turbo kits. They were "positive about buying one as soon as they were ready". Funny thing is, when I called all 84 people, only about 10 actually could come up with the deposit money. Keep in mind, EVERY ONE OF THESE PEOPLE ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY WANTED A KIT."</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">So, then, 10 out of 84 people don't just run their mouths.

I feel bad that you found out this way that many people, even on this board, idly chatter instead of backing up their promises. The greatest man who ever lived once said: "Let your 'Yes' mean yes, your 'No', no." But most probably have never heard that.

S-

<small>[ November 20, 2002, 07:18 AM: Message edited by: SS00Blue ]</small>

Black LS1 T/A

Why are you guys busting Rob's chops on this? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="gr_images/icons/mad.gif" />

I am once again amazed how someone can R&D an FI kit for other enthusiasts, keep you informed about progress (even if it doesn't move as quickly as you'd like)... all based on people SAYING they'd get the kit. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I'd never be in the aftermarket performance business. Some of you are TOTALLY unreasonable!

Oh... you can cuss me, call me names and spit on my grave for saying it. It needs to be said by someone other than a vendor who busts their a$$ to bring you such items. <img border="0" alt="[judgement]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_judge.gif" />

Rob Raymer

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by SS00Blue:
The greatest man who ever lived once said: "Let your 'Yes' mean yes, your 'No', no." But most probably have never heard that.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hmmm...could it be..JESUS maybe?? (<-in my best church lady voice)

Blackls1TA - Believe me. After all the crap I've went through with people on this kit, sometimes I wish I wasn't in the aftermarket business too.

Smokinhawk- I actually detailed that when I originally posted the results of Shawn's dyno. But you may not have ever seen that. Anyway, we were running 5 gallons of 93 octane at 7lbs of boost. Then we added 5 gallons of VP104 unleaded and turned the boost up to 9lbs.

Hope that helps.

MelloYellow

Good luck on the kit and the financials. Hope everything works out well for everyone.

What were the dyno numbers of your prototype again? Irregardless of the graph? Been trying to figure that out for at least 3 months.

chasgiv3

iTrader: (1)

Now I know I'm not really involved in this but I have two cents on doing business with vendors in general.

Rob this isn't towards you specifically since I really have no clue what this deposit thing is your talking about.

NO MONEY should be given as a deposit for ANY reason to ANYONE. Instead monies should be given at time of sale. If the vendor can't afford to front the money to buy the parts then it's clear that this vendor could go bankrupt at ANY moment and you could kiss your money goodbye!

DONT get robbed by your enthusiasm. This is the same advice I give to people who sell and buy parts from other people on our MFBA board. It's just common sense. Hand the cash over as you get the parts. That way no one gets stiffed.

As for the rest of the thread...I've got no real comment on that other than if your not happy with a vendor then go some place else. I've called many a place and gotten mixed results on how they treat me. I've always found that telling the person on the other end how your feeling about them helps the communication. I've told people before on the phone that I didn't think they were taking me seriously. They changed their demeanor towards me pretty quickly usually.

smokinHawk

iTrader: (48)

Thanks Rob, i didnt see that on the dyno post.

Im still interested in you intercooler and silicon hoses. when you get a chance PM me on how much you want for them and ill start saving up for it. Wont be for a while but a price would be nice.
thanks.

Black LS1 T/A

Chasgiv3 -

There are MANY instances where if a part is not a stocked item, you MUST give a deposit to order it. That is not abnormal.

That being said, it is awkward (and despicable) that a situation like Incon can develop and derive people of their money without getting what they paid for.

Seeing as how the market for this turbo is rather limited on the scale of sales volume, I think Rob's solution is fair and justifiable. If I were in the market for a turbo, I'd trust him with a $1000 deposit. I think it speaks to his credit that he is going to follow thru with a commitment to build the turbos even after determining he will make no profit that justifies the work he has put into it.

The best he could hope for is that it is such a hit over the longer term, that he can tool up to build them at a grand or so more per unit.

My 2cents. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

Rob Raymer

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by MelloYellow:
<strong>Good luck on the kit and the financials. Hope everything works out well for everyone.

What were the dyno numbers of your prototype again? Irregardless of the graph? Been trying to figure that out for at least 3 months.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Then you haven't been trying very hard. Why don't you look at the website? It's only been on there for the last 6 months.

Chasgiv3, you said, "NO MONEY should be given as a deposit for ANY reason to ANYONE. Instead monies should be given at time of sale. If the vendor can't afford to front the money to buy the parts then it's clear that this vendor could go bankrupt at ANY moment and you could kiss your money goodbye!"
I'm sorry, but that logic simply doesn't work. What is clear, is that I could have gone bankrupt if I took everyone's word and built 84 kits! We aren't talking about a "shelved" item here. We are talking about a CUSTOM BUILT kit. Nobody custom builds anything without some form of financial commitment on the customer's part.

i.e., Agostino charges 50% up front when you order a head and cam package, or engine. Why do you think they do that? Because a lot of people have bigger mouths than checking accounts.

I'd like to know who special orders parts (custom built parts at that), and doesn't ask for a deposit?

Well, I gotta go. I have to get back to planning my big escape with the $10,000 I took in deposits. Bankruptcy court awaits...

<small>[ November 20, 2002, 11:33 AM: Message edited by: Rob Raymer ]</small>

MelloYellow

Whatever.

You have an attitude.

Rob Raymer

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by MelloYellow:
<strong>Whatever.

You have an attitude.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes I do. Go back and read your original post, and maybe you'll understand why.

Noyzee

iTrader: (37)

well Cable just so you know I was ready and point proven I have my kit all done and my money was spent, I also am in bussines and I speek to everyone, wea <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> ther it is a stupid little airfilter or a 2 mill $$ job, Because you never know who your talking to on the other end. I know I have started working for some people changing filters but they grow and if you do your job and take them serios and talk to them they take you with them and you do the big $$$$ jobs. Just saying you should always take that extra min to help any way poss even if you have to stay 5 extra min because you never know!!!

DANS LS1

THIS THREAD HAS GONE TO ****. SOMEBODY TRYING TO DO GOOD, BUT GETS SHOT DOWN. HAVE A LITTE RESPECT FOR ROB, HE DESIGNED THIS KIT FOR YOU GUYS, AND HE GETS FLAMED ABOUT IT. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

frcefed98

iTrader: (16)

I wish we had more vendors like Rob and LS1motorsports. He took a risk with coming up with new parts and kits for our hobby. If we had more guys/companies like Robs then we really would have a huge aftermarket and affordable parts.
$1000 deposit is not much to ask for when getting a kit that you know will be complete to the last bolt and will go up with no major hassles because Rob took the time to make sure it all went together perfectly and used quality components to insure long life on the car it was being mounted up to. I wished when I got into the LS1 FI thing 3yrs ago with my Powerdyne kit, that they had took the time to make a quality kit but they didn't. I had to reengineer the whole kit to make it work worth a **** on my car. A lot of powerdyne owners had to do this.
So you get what you pay for. Robs kit will be worth every penny. Just wait till the kits get to the first 10 customers, the numbers WILL be there.
J <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

<small>[ November 20, 2002, 04:45 PM: Message edited by: frcefed98 ]</small>