Million dollar question: manifolds -vs- headers
Million dollar question: manifolds -vs- headers With all of the success of the truck manifold based setups (both single and twin), why would anyone go through all of the trouble/expense of having stainless headers made, I mean, at what point are they beneficial? Three of the fastest FI cars around (Ohio Boys Formula, Mike B's CE T/A, and the Stenod white T/A) all have truck manifold based systems. With these cars running as good as they are, why/when would it be "worth it" to go with a custom stainless header setup?
Mike B's car just ran a 8.96 @ 154 at 3800 lbs, how fast would he go if he had some $$$$$ headers, all else being equal?
Stenods white T/A recently went 8.848 @ 154.37, how fast would he go if he had some $$$$$ headers, all else being equal?
Just thinking out loud here.....
Shawn
Mike B's car just ran a 8.96 @ 154 at 3800 lbs, how fast would he go if he had some $$$$$ headers, all else being equal?
Stenods white T/A recently went 8.848 @ 154.37, how fast would he go if he had some $$$$$ headers, all else being equal?
Just thinking out loud here.....
Shawn
Originally Posted by SPANKY LS1
Stenods white T/A recently went 8.848 @ 154.37, how fast would he go if he had some $$$$$ headers, all else being equal?
It might make getting up on boost on the brake faster, mine use to come up alot faster than Kevin's. I had headers and BB turbos though, so it might have been the turbos impacting spool.
Teching In
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 36
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it's not always about more power, but making best use of what you have
20% gains are not uncommon between a manifold and equal length headers with a true merge collector into a turbo... but if you can't really use the extra power OR there is no room - logs get the job done for a whole lot less hassle
I'd do headers only because I can't stand to compromise - but that philisophy is a pain in the *** because it costs in time and money... reality is a good manifold will make huge power if everything else is right.
20% gains are not uncommon between a manifold and equal length headers with a true merge collector into a turbo... but if you can't really use the extra power OR there is no room - logs get the job done for a whole lot less hassle
I'd do headers only because I can't stand to compromise - but that philisophy is a pain in the *** because it costs in time and money... reality is a good manifold will make huge power if everything else is right.
Headers are nice, and no one can really argue that they aren't generally prefered, however for the trouble I'm going to have to go through to:
1.) Buy all of the bends in 321
2.) Buy the expensive 321 collectors
3.) Arrange them and weld them
4.) Inspect them and watch for cracks
It just wasn't worth it after I weighed the cost and trouble.
Yes, yes, I'm still researching a way to make up the bling factor.
1.) Buy all of the bends in 321
2.) Buy the expensive 321 collectors
3.) Arrange them and weld them
4.) Inspect them and watch for cracks
It just wasn't worth it after I weighed the cost and trouble.
Yes, yes, I'm still researching a way to make up the bling factor.
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to me bling is going 150+ in the quarter.
i hope to have that bling factor one day
im sure youd pick up some, but enough to ill-warrent the durabilty of a cast manfold, to me isnt worth it
i hope to have that bling factor one day
im sure youd pick up some, but enough to ill-warrent the durabilty of a cast manfold, to me isnt worth it
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Originally Posted by y2khawk
Probably none, we're out of turbo as it is
It might make getting up on boost on the brake faster, mine use to come up alot faster than Kevin's. I had headers and BB turbos though, so it might have been the turbos impacting spool.
It might make getting up on boost on the brake faster, mine use to come up alot faster than Kevin's. I had headers and BB turbos though, so it might have been the turbos impacting spool.
SSU Moderator
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 4,857
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From: Austin, TX
Jose is supposedly working on dup'ing the Incon cast manifolds but modding them for a T4 flange possibly.
Even a nice forward-facing log-style manifold (like in the TTi->QTP->GZ kit) in cast iron would be cool for street cars if you could design the kit w/o the boost/wastegate issues of the TTi/QTP.
Anywho, it takes many 10's of thousands of dollars to go from mold to production in a cast manifold so I wouldnt expect toooo much.
Even a nice forward-facing log-style manifold (like in the TTi->QTP->GZ kit) in cast iron would be cool for street cars if you could design the kit w/o the boost/wastegate issues of the TTi/QTP.
Anywho, it takes many 10's of thousands of dollars to go from mold to production in a cast manifold so I wouldnt expect toooo much.
a negative to stainless steel is it will raise underhood temps by a lot. Then you'll have to use header wrap to keep the temps down.
for hp per cost factor it probably isn't worth it. If you want to be the top dog then by all means you need em.
for hp per cost factor it probably isn't worth it. If you want to be the top dog then by all means you need em.
Cast OEM manifolds vs. aftermarket headers:
#1 Cost
#2 Reliability (cracking)
#3 Value-added
I guess you have to see where you end up with this list.
Spanks, this thread is definitely very though provoking, but howzabout adding the Speed Inc shop car to the list... it has custom headers.
#1 Cost
#2 Reliability (cracking)
#3 Value-added
I guess you have to see where you end up with this list.
Spanks, this thread is definitely very though provoking, but howzabout adding the Speed Inc shop car to the list... it has custom headers.
