MY friend IS nuTS! 10 PSI ON A STOCK MOTOR!!
10-28-2005, 04:08 PM
#21
9 Second Club
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Reston, VA
Posts: 2,034
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nice post Mike... I would however say that I belive that there are more than enough people runnning 550-600RWHP (600~680 Flywheel) to say that your numbers are a little low. But like Mike said... it all comes to the tune. I think that you could blow your engine at 400 HP if the tune is off.
Just from what I have learned from the folks on the board here... I am still learning every day.
Just from what I have learned from the folks on the board here... I am still learning every day.
10-28-2005, 04:34 PM
#22
Most people don't realize that peak cyl pressure reached is around 700-800 psi. Detonation raises it to much higher levels depending on severity of the detonation. Detonation also increases the amount of heat produced as well.
It's possible to get defective parts, but I don't see any reason why these stock engines can't live at twice their rated horsepower if taken care of properly. It's very dependant on the tune. I've been at 10+ psi for 10k miles of my 15k boosted miles. My motor now has 75k miles. There is very little room for mistakes at this level though and a bad tank of gas and not paying attention could have it dissasembled the fast way.
Losing rods is a function of RPM and not really HP. If you lose oil pressure bad things happen too.
It's possible to get defective parts, but I don't see any reason why these stock engines can't live at twice their rated horsepower if taken care of properly. It's very dependant on the tune. I've been at 10+ psi for 10k miles of my 15k boosted miles. My motor now has 75k miles. There is very little room for mistakes at this level though and a bad tank of gas and not paying attention could have it dissasembled the fast way.
Losing rods is a function of RPM and not really HP. If you lose oil pressure bad things happen too.
10-28-2005, 05:18 PM
#23
TondSS your friend isnt very bright to start with,boosting 8#'s no form of intercooling, making what 343hp?his A/F is 12:1 which is WAY to lean with that amount of boost and no intercooling,hes prolli detonation to hell and when asked he didnt know what KR was.He is running 110 octane but thats not going to help him that much.Theres pushing the limit and then theres plain out not thinking.For example,ill back mike(blacktransam) about the hp hes making but hes also using his head and doing what he needs to do to keep it relatively safe.whereas,from the impression hes made,s10V8 just had the money and thought itd be neat to have a turbo ls1 pickup,which would have been accept for the fact that hes not doing what he should be to prevent damage.u need to send your buddy straight to someone whose got experience with the LSX motor and with FI as well,otherwise hes going to have to bum a ride from you when his motor blows.
11-03-2005, 08:33 PM
#25
uh oh. well i have a question..... Why can turbo/S/C cars only run about 8-9 psi max and like 500 HP without having to worry a ton about blowing where there are MANY MANY Head/Cam/Spray cars putting down over 550 to the rears with no problem? I dont understand how this is different? Are they running the same risks f/i guys are or is something different? Also why do in general, spray cars get better track times than blown cars...... For example..... Cam only cars spray a 100-150 shot and put down a little over 500 to the rears and they can run 10's for the msot part with some suspension/tires and all the 8-9 psi turbo cars right around 500 hp are running higher 11's. Am i looking at this wrong, looking at bad examples? Or why does it seem they run better? Thanks
__________________
Featuring 6 different turbo kits for your F-body!
Check us out on Facebook at: www.facebook.com/HuronSpeed
Featuring 6 different turbo kits for your F-body!
Check us out on Facebook at: www.facebook.com/HuronSpeed
11-04-2005, 08:30 AM
#26
TOndSS...i wont say i told ya so
even though hes an idiot i still feel sorry for the motor. 
Superman......its much easier to tune for a H/C spray car than a FI car, and H/C?spray cars dont have to build boost,flip a switch and bam 150hp or whatever,and most H/C spray cars have the traction to back it up whereas some FI are comfortable pulling up in full street trim on street tires and run 11's....thats my goal
even though hes an idiot i still feel sorry for the motor. Superman......its much easier to tune for a H/C spray car than a FI car, and H/C?spray cars dont have to build boost,flip a switch and bam 150hp or whatever,and most H/C spray cars have the traction to back it up whereas some FI are comfortable pulling up in full street trim on street tires and run 11's....thats my goal
11-04-2005, 09:00 AM
#27
When you have 500 boosted hp you are going to be using it all the time. Vs. using spray when racing and thats it. Also peak cylinder pressure is of a big concern. Remember when you get 1-2 degrees of kr that still means you have knock. Even though the computer takes care of it instantly it was still there for the computer to pick up. Also the #7 ringland can be attributed to intake manifold design and running a little lean there. A close eye has to be keept on a FI tune that is at the limit. Especialy running pump fuel. It varies to much to be within a 1 degree threshold of kr. People runing on the steet and making pass after pass equalls hotter air coming into the maifold. Also coolant temp is not always paid attention too. If its under 190 its good right. Well how about the temp of the coolant in the heads after you have been boostin 10psi for about 5 highway 70 rolls. I have seen way to many tunes with out consideration takin into the IAT spark correction and the coolant temp spark correction. You need to take out a big amount of timing when getting hot. This also allows you to run much better when its cold out, adding a little then.
I have been tuning a fullsize chevy with a P1 at 14psi. This is a 98 with the old 5.7l vortec. Most would agree that its no LS1 as far as strength goes. It has been running on pump fuel all summer long. It makes 485rwtq@3600rpm. talk about cylinder pressure on a bone stock longblock lol. It has been kept alive with a 2 bar map and keeping the timing in check all summer. Also a very aggressive IAT spark correction table. On the highway you can make a run with the IAT at 80 degrees on the first pull at I will see about 13-16 degrees of total timing during the run. When its hot out and multiple pulls are made and the IAT is over 120 the total timing will be at 8-12. Just keepin it safe on that pump swill.
I think there is a lot to consider. I have seen the stock 6.0l are good for 600hp or better.
I have been tuning a fullsize chevy with a P1 at 14psi. This is a 98 with the old 5.7l vortec. Most would agree that its no LS1 as far as strength goes. It has been running on pump fuel all summer long. It makes 485rwtq@3600rpm. talk about cylinder pressure on a bone stock longblock lol. It has been kept alive with a 2 bar map and keeping the timing in check all summer. Also a very aggressive IAT spark correction table. On the highway you can make a run with the IAT at 80 degrees on the first pull at I will see about 13-16 degrees of total timing during the run. When its hot out and multiple pulls are made and the IAT is over 120 the total timing will be at 8-12. Just keepin it safe on that pump swill.
I think there is a lot to consider. I have seen the stock 6.0l are good for 600hp or better.
Last edited by hellbents10; 11-04-2005 at 09:05 AM.
11-04-2005, 10:21 AM
#28
Sorry that your friend popped his motor, but he wasn't being very smart about it.
Hell bent hit the nail on the head, it's in the tune and how you drive it. As I mentioned before the lowest I can boost my car is 10/11psi. I can get away with 10psi on 91 octane and no meth for a quick 60-120 pull. I've even tested 91 octane, pure meth 14 psi and doing a 60-120 pull and was ok in 110 ambient temps. If I plan on racing or just running the car hard 100 octane gets added for safety margin.
In order to have a stock motor live you need to babysit it, have a really good tune, babysit it, use water/meth, babysit it, intercooled, babysit it, use higher octane fuel,babysit it, run the it rich (11.0:1) and babysit it.
It's also a bad idea to make back to back pulls, things get hot. It's best to allow a few mins between pulls so the car can cool again.
An aeroforcetech scan gage goes a long way in keeping the motor alive by it letting you monitor knock during a run. I got one because I got tired of having the laptop in the car all the time.
Some people say get a forged motor and turn up the boost. A forged motor is often times a bandaid for a bad tune. Making sure the car does not lean out or detonate is paramount.
I hope he gets it fixed and puts an intercooler on it.
Hell bent hit the nail on the head, it's in the tune and how you drive it. As I mentioned before the lowest I can boost my car is 10/11psi. I can get away with 10psi on 91 octane and no meth for a quick 60-120 pull. I've even tested 91 octane, pure meth 14 psi and doing a 60-120 pull and was ok in 110 ambient temps. If I plan on racing or just running the car hard 100 octane gets added for safety margin.
In order to have a stock motor live you need to babysit it, have a really good tune, babysit it, use water/meth, babysit it, intercooled, babysit it, use higher octane fuel,babysit it, run the it rich (11.0:1) and babysit it.
It's also a bad idea to make back to back pulls, things get hot. It's best to allow a few mins between pulls so the car can cool again.
An aeroforcetech scan gage goes a long way in keeping the motor alive by it letting you monitor knock during a run. I got one because I got tired of having the laptop in the car all the time.
Some people say get a forged motor and turn up the boost. A forged motor is often times a bandaid for a bad tune. Making sure the car does not lean out or detonate is paramount.
I hope he gets it fixed and puts an intercooler on it.
11-05-2005, 01:38 AM
#29
Originally Posted by TeeKay
FWIW I've been reading a lot about stock bottom ends, and the consensus seems to be that at about 500 hp is the limit for good reliability and the weak point is the #7 piston ring lands going bye-bye at about 550. I don't know about that personally, but it comes from seemingly reliable sources. I guess it's all about cylinder pressure, not boost necessarily. GL
11-05-2005, 02:28 AM
#30
TECH Addict
iTrader: (36)
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Murphy, Tx
Posts: 2,526
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Superman09
uh oh. well i have a question..... Why can turbo/S/C cars only run about 8-9 psi max and like 500 HP without having to worry a ton about blowing where there are MANY MANY Head/Cam/Spray cars putting down over 550 to the rears with no problem? I dont understand how this is different? Are they running the same risks f/i guys are or is something different? Also why do in general, spray cars get better track times than blown cars...... For example..... Cam only cars spray a 100-150 shot and put down a little over 500 to the rears and they can run 10's for the msot part with some suspension/tires and all the 8-9 psi turbo cars right around 500 hp are running higher 11's. Am i looking at this wrong, looking at bad examples? Or why does it seem they run better? Thanks
11-05-2005, 03:19 PM
#31
On The Tree
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: flemington, NJ
Posts: 194
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Time for me to add my 2 sence in fellers....
I was running 13 psi on a D1SC on a stock motor, cats and all. It was runnin like a champ for about a month and a half. cylinder 7 lost all compression. turns out it broke a ring land only due to a melting piston top. The piston melted only because of a shitty tune. I dont think you'll have a problem with 10 psi as long as you have a safe tune up. however detonation can happen to anyone so it is kind of a double edge sword.
Since I blew mine up it sent the motor to east coast supercharginh where they bored it .030 over and put forged pistons and rods in it. I also got a slew of other stuff while it was appart. I just got done brake in and it's down there gettin tuned now. I'll be sure to keep you fellers posted with numbers and times and what have you.
I was running 13 psi on a D1SC on a stock motor, cats and all. It was runnin like a champ for about a month and a half. cylinder 7 lost all compression. turns out it broke a ring land only due to a melting piston top. The piston melted only because of a shitty tune. I dont think you'll have a problem with 10 psi as long as you have a safe tune up. however detonation can happen to anyone so it is kind of a double edge sword.
Since I blew mine up it sent the motor to east coast supercharginh where they bored it .030 over and put forged pistons and rods in it. I also got a slew of other stuff while it was appart. I just got done brake in and it's down there gettin tuned now. I'll be sure to keep you fellers posted with numbers and times and what have you.
