Need To Get Work Done :) Please Help
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From: Phoenix, AZ
Need To Get Work Done :) Please Help OK, I'm ready to get some work done to the car. For those that don't know, I have:
1998 SS Incon TT
Bone-stock motor
I have several options in mind, I need help prioritizing them. First off, at 8psi boost I'm close to the edge of the fuel system, so for now I'm thinking I'll get done what I can to run 8-10psi on pump gas. Here's what I have in mind:
1) 8.75-9:1 pistons
2) Heads
3) Cam
4) Water/alky kit
Initially I was going to do heads/cam/alky. Now I'm wondering if it would make more sense to just dig into the engine, add new pistons, then go with cam and alky, skipping the heads.
Pros/Cons to these choices?
If you could throw in ballpark figures for parts/labor, that would help a lot as well!
- Dug
1998 SS Incon TT
Bone-stock motor
I have several options in mind, I need help prioritizing them. First off, at 8psi boost I'm close to the edge of the fuel system, so for now I'm thinking I'll get done what I can to run 8-10psi on pump gas. Here's what I have in mind:
1) 8.75-9:1 pistons
2) Heads
3) Cam
4) Water/alky kit
Initially I was going to do heads/cam/alky. Now I'm wondering if it would make more sense to just dig into the engine, add new pistons, then go with cam and alky, skipping the heads.
Pros/Cons to these choices?
If you could throw in ballpark figures for parts/labor, that would help a lot as well!
- Dug
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Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Bellingham, WA
Re: Need To Get Work Done :) Please Help I would personally...
Lower the compression with the use of a set of 6.0 liter heads, put in some stronger pistons and rods.
The heads will run you $600 or so from what I have seen and lower the compression some.
Honestly don't know the price on the rods for a ls1 or the pistons...
I would do a alchy kit for safety but if you do the motor and fuel system, with some tuning I think you should be fine.
Lower the compression with the use of a set of 6.0 liter heads, put in some stronger pistons and rods.
The heads will run you $600 or so from what I have seen and lower the compression some.
Honestly don't know the price on the rods for a ls1 or the pistons...
I would do a alchy kit for safety but if you do the motor and fuel system, with some tuning I think you should be fine.
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From: Phoenix, AZ
Re: Need To Get Work Done :) Please Help Do you mean STOCK 6L heads? I've gotten prices from TEA for those heads, but they're nowhere near that price!! How much would stock 6L heads drop the CR? What CR of piston would you choose? If the heads will lower it some, then I'm thinking 9:1 pistons would suffice . . .
- Dug
- Dug
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Re: Need To Get Work Done :) Please Help </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by ChevyNo1:
<strong> Do you mean STOCK 6L heads? I've gotten prices from TEA for those heads, but they're nowhere near that price!! How much would stock 6L heads drop the CR? What CR of piston would you choose? If the heads will lower it some, then I'm thinking 9:1 pistons would suffice . . .
- Dug </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Do a compression check and a leak-down on all eight. If the shortblock is in good shape, leave it alone. Do the heads, cam and alky and run the fuel system to the end of it's usefulness.
It'll give you a safe kick from where you are now, and you can save cash for the next level. Remember that the heads, cam and alky are all things that will continue to be useful after the 454 stroker bullit, that I just KNOW you're thinking about ordering, is installed... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
SC-
<strong> Do you mean STOCK 6L heads? I've gotten prices from TEA for those heads, but they're nowhere near that price!! How much would stock 6L heads drop the CR? What CR of piston would you choose? If the heads will lower it some, then I'm thinking 9:1 pistons would suffice . . .
- Dug </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Do a compression check and a leak-down on all eight. If the shortblock is in good shape, leave it alone. Do the heads, cam and alky and run the fuel system to the end of it's usefulness.
It'll give you a safe kick from where you are now, and you can save cash for the next level. Remember that the heads, cam and alky are all things that will continue to be useful after the 454 stroker bullit, that I just KNOW you're thinking about ordering, is installed... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
SC-
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From: Phoenix, AZ
Re: Need To Get Work Done :) Please Help Thanks SC! Now all I have is one question, only because I haven't done it before . . . how do I do the compression check and the leakdown? I'm assuming a tool that goes where the plug does, crank the engine until TDC, then see if it holds the pressure.
OK, now tell me how I REALLY do it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> .
- Dug
OK, now tell me how I REALLY do it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> .
- Dug
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From: Beaver Falls, PA
Re: Need To Get Work Done :) Please Help </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by ChevyNo1:
<strong> Do you mean STOCK 6L heads? I've gotten prices from TEA for those heads, but they're nowhere near that price!! How much would stock 6L heads drop the CR? What CR of piston would you choose? If the heads will lower it some, then I'm thinking 9:1 pistons would suffice . . .
- Dug </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">look for a local head guy, NEW 6.0 head castings can be had for $400. go here http://www.smokemup.com/auto_math/index.php to figure your compression. there are many variables to your cr. hope this helps you a bit. what do you want the car to do anyay? are you going to spray/charge it?
<strong> Do you mean STOCK 6L heads? I've gotten prices from TEA for those heads, but they're nowhere near that price!! How much would stock 6L heads drop the CR? What CR of piston would you choose? If the heads will lower it some, then I'm thinking 9:1 pistons would suffice . . .
- Dug </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">look for a local head guy, NEW 6.0 head castings can be had for $400. go here http://www.smokemup.com/auto_math/index.php to figure your compression. there are many variables to your cr. hope this helps you a bit. what do you want the car to do anyay? are you going to spray/charge it?
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Re: Need To Get Work Done :) Please Help </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by ChevyNo1:
<strong> Thanks SC! Now all I have is one question, only because I haven't done it before . . . how do I do the compression check and the leakdown? I'm assuming a tool that goes where the plug does, crank the engine until TDC, then see if it holds the pressure.
OK, now tell me how I REALLY do it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> .
- Dug </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Call up Summit Racing and order up a leak-down tester. They're cheap. Thread one end into the cylinder at TDC, and the other into a compressed air source, set the regulator on the leak-down tester for 100PSI and look at the second gauge on the tester. Divide the second gauge reading by the first (which you set at 100 PSI) and you have the percentage leak-down. 15% is the high side of normal. I'd accept anything between 0% and 8% or 9%. After that, it's getting to the point where I'd want to crack open the shortblock.
Repeat for the remaining 7 cylinders.
If all's ok, go back to my previous post...
Let us know what you decide.
SC-
<strong> Thanks SC! Now all I have is one question, only because I haven't done it before . . . how do I do the compression check and the leakdown? I'm assuming a tool that goes where the plug does, crank the engine until TDC, then see if it holds the pressure.
OK, now tell me how I REALLY do it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> .
- Dug </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Call up Summit Racing and order up a leak-down tester. They're cheap. Thread one end into the cylinder at TDC, and the other into a compressed air source, set the regulator on the leak-down tester for 100PSI and look at the second gauge on the tester. Divide the second gauge reading by the first (which you set at 100 PSI) and you have the percentage leak-down. 15% is the high side of normal. I'd accept anything between 0% and 8% or 9%. After that, it's getting to the point where I'd want to crack open the shortblock.
Repeat for the remaining 7 cylinders.
If all's ok, go back to my previous post...
Let us know what you decide.
SC-
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From: Phoenix, AZ
Re: Need To Get Work Done :) Please Help OK, I've been giving this a lot of thought, and this is what I'm thinking of doing, if this is a REALLY BAD IDEA let me know.
I'm going to go with 8.75:1 pistons . . . I might as well tackle that now. I can't afford to do everything at once, so I'm thinking of leaving the heads until this coming fall. So this round I'll do pistons and cam and alky . . . do the heads in the fall. I can do that myself. How does this sound? Will that combo work fine for the next few months until I can afford the heads?
Thanks to all for your help, I REALLY appreciate it!
- Dug
I'm going to go with 8.75:1 pistons . . . I might as well tackle that now. I can't afford to do everything at once, so I'm thinking of leaving the heads until this coming fall. So this round I'll do pistons and cam and alky . . . do the heads in the fall. I can do that myself. How does this sound? Will that combo work fine for the next few months until I can afford the heads?
Thanks to all for your help, I REALLY appreciate it!
- Dug
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Re: Need To Get Work Done :) Please Help Do the bottom end for sure <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
8.75:1 forged piston sounds good, if you can afford a good rod I'd throw one in as well. You'll need great fueling and at min aftermarket springs/hardened pushrods if you are going for higher boost. Might as well throw a cam in while it is all apart too <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Best of luck!
Chris
8.75:1 forged piston sounds good, if you can afford a good rod I'd throw one in as well. You'll need great fueling and at min aftermarket springs/hardened pushrods if you are going for higher boost. Might as well throw a cam in while it is all apart too <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Best of luck!
Chris
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Re: Need To Get Work Done :) Please Help Thanks Chris! Does $3500 sound like too much to put the pistons, rods, cam, and have the block cleaned up at a machine shop? That's parts and labor. The guy who's gonna do the work said it's a real good idea to do that, he said .020 cleanup in the bores oughta do it. He also suggested SRP pistons, which is a different line of J & E. Any comments?
Also, for now I was thinking of just running the stock/Incon fuel system, which should handle 550rwhp. That's all I'm concerned about now, I will address the fueling possibly this fall with the heads.
Now about what you said about springs/pushrods . . . if I stay at stock rev limit, do I really need that? I know that if I put a cam in you usually change your rev limit . . . I was hoping I could leave the springs/pushrods until I do heads in the fall.
- Dug
<small>[ March 05, 2003, 03:28 PM: Message edited by: ChevyNo1 ]</small>
Also, for now I was thinking of just running the stock/Incon fuel system, which should handle 550rwhp. That's all I'm concerned about now, I will address the fueling possibly this fall with the heads.
Now about what you said about springs/pushrods . . . if I stay at stock rev limit, do I really need that? I know that if I put a cam in you usually change your rev limit . . . I was hoping I could leave the springs/pushrods until I do heads in the fall.
- Dug
<small>[ March 05, 2003, 03:28 PM: Message edited by: ChevyNo1 ]</small>
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From: New Phila, OH
Re: Need To Get Work Done :) Please Help If you have a 1998 block I dont think you can bore the motor .02 you can only go .005 unless you resleve the motor and that will cost you double check the .005 bore that is what I was told I am doing a 99 block and they are the same in 2000 you can go bigger.
Re: Need To Get Work Done :) Please Help For a truly budget approach, I'd...
1) Get Diamond 3.095 bore pistons, the ones for stock rods (97-98 blocks can only in most cases go .005, the later ones can go .010). You would need to custom order them to be 8.75:1 with stock LS1 heads.
2) Hone the block, rebalance the rotating assembly, redo all the bearings and stuff it back in. Personally I'd probably skip a few fancy meals and stuff a cam in there while I was in there.
You will have a longblock that will let you make 10 lbs of boost on pump gas.
Remember ported heads improve the efficiency of the motor, meaning, you can make as much power but with less boost. But since you will be lowering the compression you will be reducing your overall dynamic (?) compression when you are running the car.
1) Get Diamond 3.095 bore pistons, the ones for stock rods (97-98 blocks can only in most cases go .005, the later ones can go .010). You would need to custom order them to be 8.75:1 with stock LS1 heads.
2) Hone the block, rebalance the rotating assembly, redo all the bearings and stuff it back in. Personally I'd probably skip a few fancy meals and stuff a cam in there while I was in there.
You will have a longblock that will let you make 10 lbs of boost on pump gas.
Remember ported heads improve the efficiency of the motor, meaning, you can make as much power but with less boost. But since you will be lowering the compression you will be reducing your overall dynamic (?) compression when you are running the car.