badz2801

Hey everyone..sorry I dont have much time 8:00am classes suck big time.

I will respond to everyone when I get home. In general though, I am going to wait until Sat to see if I get this thing. My gut tells me, Kenny is blowing smoke. I still dont understand why Kenny did not ship my computer back to me well before the kit considering I know he had that in his possesion. Anywase, have to run, ill reply to all later. Thanks for the support.

Sincerely
Badz2801

badz2801

t-76Y2KSS, QuickSilver200, JMWS6: Thanks for the advice, I will definatly do that if he does not deliver this weekend. What do you think my chances are of delivery? What do you think about this kit if is does get here? Do you think he will send a well performing kit considering what has happened? I think they are zero to none, but what harm could it do to wait until this weekend at this point?

BIGBOS: I think I am going to go with the ls1motorsports kit. They have some huge numbers and its easy to change boost levels.

Funny how complicated something so simple gets, when people just can't seem to get their act together.

<small>[ March 04, 2003, 08:28 AM: Message edited by: badz2801 ]</small>

Black LS1 T/A

I talked to Kenny about this situation and he said after the stuff he shipped sat for days in an area with four? feet of snow, they shipped it back. I'm not going even go that roundy-roundy with anyone. But, bottom line, I guess it's come to this:

I think after this post, Kenny is pretty discouraged about helping guys (many just kids who don’t have the maturity to realize the value of what he is doing for them) put these kits together.
His real money comes from people bringing their stuff to his shop to make them fast. He was a professional racer AND knows how to build cars to make them perform awesome.

He makes a pittance doing these kits for people like us who can't afford the big ticket items (no, a $5800 supercharger is not big ticket for much of the world out there, even though it is for you and me). However, after supporting and dealing with people who want things done now, now, now!!! ... considering the time it consumes from making his business survive, he's ready to throw up his hands and be done with it.

This is what I've been talking about all along when guys post so much negative stuff to hurt people's business because this stuff does not move quickly enough for them. (badz2801, this is not a post pointing specifically at you, at all. There have been others, and this one just broke the camel's back.) We are closing the doors that these knowledgeable experts who are willing to help us have opened.

Some of the guys on here have bought stuff for cheaper through other sources that are just a parts conduit that know NOTHING about what they are selling you. Then, many here have gone to Kenny when it didn't work right or perform. He's been getting sloppy seconds, and helping guys out of goodwill and kindness, more or less. I know this to be a fact first-hand. And I don't believe it's just me GWP has helped... I've become impatient and frustrated because I wanted stuff to happen like "today", too. But, you don't make a fast car that will endure in a few weeks. I have to spend a day getting my fuel pump sender out, ship it off, wait two weeks for it to get built, and then shipped back, then put it back in. That’s three weeks to a month without my car! But, that is going to be what it takes to get fuel to my car RIGHT, with a poor man’s budget. It takes time... and TAKING the time to do it right, get the right parts and testing, etc. Golden West Performance pioneered the Stage II and Stage III ATI D/P-1SC. Subsequent vendors who sold exact copies of GWP's setup were just copy-catting the system.

Every time I've argued with some of you guys about jumping on the boards to post stuff like this, it's been for you and for me, not just the person/vendor trying to help you. And when I think about it, no matter how pretty or how derogatory the post, it's always that a person FEELS they are lied to. So I must go with what I know.

How many times have I been stuck without knowing what to do when some new situation I have no experience with pops up. badz2801, my friend, there is going to come a time you will pay BIG bucks to fix something because no one will be willing to give away their knowledge, their expertise. That is the job the live on, like you live on programming. Do you go to work day in and day out and do it for free? No. You get big bucks to do it. However, if you could have worked with Kenny to get your kit to you and let him work for other people at the same time (in other words, not devote ALL his time to just your situation), you would have had one of the best supercharger setups in this country (for people in our class). You would have been able to rest easy knowing a professional builder and racer was only a phone call away if something came up. You may not get him today or even tomorrow... he may not have time to call YOU or ME back every time we want. But, his expertise was there.

Some of you who whined and squealed about time and want to take up half a person's work day on the phone will clap for joy to see GWP and other such vendors leave this venue, I suppose. I, for one, am saddened by it. I'm through with this thread. I only hope we don't run all the good talent away that are willing to help us who are borderline capable of financing 10-second cars. Who would have ever imagined guys like ourselves could ever get a car to run that fast?!

And I won't respond to baited replies. What I've just posted is honest and speaks for itself.

nfshotrod

I work for fed-ex. We will hold the packages for three days in our area if the weather is bad. I also have a few friends at UPS and they do he same. Find a different company to deal with. They are nothing but <img border="0" alt="[bullshit]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_bs.gif" />

Black LS1 T/A

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by nfshotrod:
<strong> I work for fed-ex. We will hold the packages for three days in our area if the weather is bad. I also have a few friends at UPS and they do he same. Find a different company to deal with. They are nothing but <img border="0" alt="[bullshit]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_bs.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">So... tell me what does your company do if there are four days of bad weather and can't deliver to an area?

Again... asumptions being made, here.

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

If he gives you tracking info you should be able to see why it did not get to your doorstep.

UPS holds stuff for two days I think.

Now I don't know the buyer here personally, so I am taking it on faith that he is representing things fairly, like when he ordered the parts, when he paid for them, etc., and if he is telling us the truth than this deal is taking too long and it's as simple as that because unless the buyer lives in a rural area the UPS guys can go anywhere business continues even with bad weather.

What's the tracking number for the failed delivery? If he gives you that info you should post an apology but if he does not then it's all hooeey.

badz2801

Black LS1 TA:

I agree with you that many of us in this world want things fast. Being young and from the Washington DC area amplifies this as everything is done over night so it seems. I also agree that even though Kenny did not get my system to me within 90 days, the times his system produces speak for themselves. He defiantly knows how to make a car run and from what I have seen is a leader in the business. Unfortunately, Kenny has his version of what happened and I have mine. No one will really ever know what happened and at this point it does not matter. Small business is small business. If you can not complete your contract on time the client and the vender suffer. I understand what you are saying, and I agree with a lot of it. Unfortunately, this is the nature of business, no one is going to be nice or patient when they feel their money is in jeopardy. If Kenny is not making enough off his kit, then he should charge more. People will pay the price if the product performs ( I know I would). I have over $70,000.00 in assets (car stuff) alone and I am not afraid to pay for it. If its worth the money ill pay it. I also know I am young and have very little overhead, unlike many people. I do not have to provide for a family, a house or any debts. So I understand your desire to have a low priced performing system available on the market. On a side note though if Kenny is tired of young kids not realizing the value of his product, then he should not make it available for sale. He has to understand he has full control over this situation and I know it would have gone differently if it was handled better(in terms of communication). I do not deem it acceptable for a vender to hold $6,500.00 from a client and promise its arrival numerous times. Be upfront and tell them, if they don't like it they reserve the right to ask for a refund (and not wait for fedex to return it). In my own opinion, Kenny is just humbled at the fact that a twenty year old "kid" and his mother were no longer willing to play the game. I would also like to note that the snow issue has only been in effect for the last three weeks. Regardless of the weather, all clients of Fexdex are given formal documentation proving they sent it. Why was this not provided to me when I asked for it? Personally, I know I have lost my temper about this issue and I apologize to Kenny for anything perceived as a personal attack.

I would also like to thank you for your help on this and your honest opinion. I also understand you have a better relationship with Kenny, than I do and you are loyal. I think that alone speaks wonders and is in rare form today. Please do not flame BlackLS1TA as he has many valid points.

I would also like to thank the members of this board for their support and I will let everyone know the outcome.

Sincerely
Badz2801

<small>[ March 04, 2003, 03:32 PM: Message edited by: badz2801 ]</small>

ChrisB

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Black LS1 T/A:
<strong> I talked to Kenny about this situation and he said after the stuff he shipped sat for days in an area with four? feet of snow, they shipped it back.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"></strong>

Shipping problems like that are obviously not his fault - but then why not provide tracking numbers to prove this? There is NO reason to not provide the tracking numbers, other than there are no such numbers (which would be the case if the package never shipped). No one aside from him knows if he shipped the items or not- he very well could have - but why not provide a few numbers as evidence to head off all of this?


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
I think after this post, Kenny is pretty discouraged about helping guys (many just kids who don’t have the maturity to realize the value of what he is doing for them) put these kits together.[...]
His real money comes from people bringing their stuff to his shop to make them fast.[...]
He makes a pittance doing these kits for people like us who can't afford the big ticket items (no, a $5800 supercharger is not big ticket for much of the world out there, even though it is for you and me).</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

So basically he is doing everyone a favor by putting together and selling these kits? I don't buy that line -
Yes, I agree he probably isn't making a ton of money off the kits - but as a customer that isn't my problem. He advertises a kit and I (as a hypothetical customer) purchase it. I pay him, but he never delivers the product. If he isn't going to be able to deliver, he needs to either not sell the product or make that known up front.

If selling these kits aren't worth his time then he shouldn't sell them, period. The fact that he has enters him into an obligation to deliver them.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Do you go to work day in and day out and do it for free? No. You get big bucks to do it. However, if you could have worked with Kenny to get your kit to you and let him work for other people at the same time (in other words, not devote ALL his time to just your situation), you would have had one of the best supercharger setups in this country (for people in our class).
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

That is BS. He paid the price that GWP asked for the kit. If he was told upfront that all this would occur and he agreed, then yep, it's his problem. But somehow I don't think that is the case. If GWP can't deliver on products they have already collected payment on then it is THEIR problem and THEY need to work it out.

Yes, stuff happens and people should understand that things aren't always perfect, but it sounds to me (and this is admittedly all secondhand knowledge) like he did wait, he was patient, but GWP wouldn't even take the time to send him a TRACKING NUMBER. How long does it take to actually put together a kit? I assume they have moved a few of them before so getting the parts together shouldn't be a mystery. They have also already received payment, so it shouldn't be a money hold up - so either they are waiting on parts, or they don't have the time to put something in a box?

Black LS1 TA: I don't agree with the extent to which you have taken it, but I agree with some of your sentiments - there will inevitably be problems and delays when enough people purchase a product/go to a vendor, and yes, many people are impatient and quick to go off, which isn't fair to the company - but it happens. The thing that sets one vendor apart from another is how they handle these problems and issues. It sounds to me like GWP had some problems, which is no big deal, but where they dropped the ball is in how they handled them.

I just think the attitude is wrong - the position that xxx company has a monopoly on all knowledge and any offering they make should be viewed as manna to the great unwashed masses is a pretty poor position. And any company that adopts that position will not last, because there will be others out there with knowledge, ability, AND customer service.

badz2801: It sounds to me like you still want the GWP kit - I would follow PSJ's advice and send them a certified letter that lays out what you expect and when - and be reasonable (not that you haven't been). That will either hopefully get your your product, or provide a legal building block for whatever your future actions are.

Chris

badz2801

ChrisB - I agree with you 110%, you said it all man thank you.

I will definatly take your advice and write the letter. Yes I do want the kit if it performs. If I get a defective kit or have a difficult time getting support that I paid for; then no I dont want it. My money would be better spent on Ls1motorsports who do not have a grudge against me.

P.S. I also have a friend who works for GM and knows about FI systems on F-Bodies. I am going to have him check and look over my kit + PCM to verify it is in good condition before the install.

Sincerely
Badz2801

<small>[ March 04, 2003, 05:15 PM: Message edited by: badz2801 ]</small>

2001WS6Vert

Its threads like these that I look at to make a judgement about a company. Its one of the useful tools that this site offers. 1badz28 I think your way of acting seems level headed to me. It doesn't appear that you carelessly posted your story. It looks like your turning up the heat to get some action. I notice that some sponsors are very pro-active when a negative thread comes out about them (Rob Raymer comes to mind). They will respond quickly and give their side of the story. I've noticed that GWP doesn't seem to do this. They could help their case a lot more if they paid attention to any negative post about them and responded in the thread so we could see both sides of the argument. I can say this, modifying an LS1 is an agonizing experience, My car has been down for about a year. I do have it running now. I guess because this is a relatively new engine everything about it seems to be special. I've finally gotten used to just forgetting about how long whatever I'm doing takes and I just check in once in awhile to make sure they haven't forgotten me.
P.S. As a business owner I can tell you that the credit card reversal will get their attention. They will get a chargeback against their account until the issue has been mediated.

Cool28

iTrader: (2)

Man this is the first lvled headed post about a business I seen on here <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> . Hope you get your stuff soon. I had to wait for the incon kit for over 6 months so I know what your going threw.

Black LS1 T/A

2001WS6Vert, not everybody has posted to the internet nor is comfortable verbalizing a position in a venue they are unfamiliar with. Kenny just build cars. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

Black LS1 T/A

Badz2801, it seems you did pick up that I was NOT trying to direct the meat of my post at you. I respected the level-headed manner in which you posted about a frustrating situation.

To other's with differing opinions than me... you are entitled. It still stands that I hate to see people who are willing to help less financially capable people go fast get discouraged from that.

<small>[ March 04, 2003, 06:41 PM: Message edited by: Black LS1 T/A ]</small>

ChrisB

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Black LS1 T/A:
<strong> Badz2801, it seems you did pick up that I was NOT trying to direct the meat of my post at you. I respected the level-headed manner in which you posted about a frustrating situation.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"></strong>

But since you posted this in his thread, by default, you statements are going to be associated with him. If you truly wanted to make a general statement on the condition of the industry a new thread would have been a more appropriate place.
And don't get me wrong, I understand to an extent what you are saying, I just disagree with the extent to which you took it (and it's applicability to this thread).

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"><strong>
[...] I hate to see people who are willing to help less financially capable people go fast get discouraged from that.[...] </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Are we talking about a business or a charity here? If a place is charging for a product then they enter in an obligation to deliver that product in the manner specified.

Badz2801: Good luck, the GWP products I have seen have been good quality and complete - I would send them that letter, and start a log of when you tried to contact them, what messages where left, etc.
And at some point if you get no satisfication you need to decide if you should go with another vendor or not (and contact the credit card company if you decide to).

Chris

badz2801

Update: It appears that the boxes have been magically found or so Kenny thinks (his contact remembered the special packing tape he uses). He said he was going to pick them up, and deliver them to the airport for shipment. I was also told by my mom that he would call her with tracking numbers. Lets see if this really happens.

QuickSilver2002

Glad to hear things are working out.

Just FYI, this type of stuff is a matter of federal law. You can file a compaint with the FTC. Big comanies get serious fines for this type of stuff. Not sure what they do with small companies. FTC phone/mail order rule info

Texas Terminator

OUCH! that would also get their attention! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />
also glad to hear that things might work out in your favor soon. i also had a bad experience but have moved past it and forward.
also as a business owner, JMO, i would be very wary of continuing forward with your transaction. there are other kits available out there and the simple fact of customer service means more than the cost of the kit itself. you already have a bad experience with them and you don't even have parts yet. what will happen when something breaks or goes wrong? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="gr_images/icons/mad.gif" /> what if you get the wrong parts after waiting this long already? <img border="0" alt="[bang head]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_banghead.gif" /> get your PCM back and go somewhere else.
nobody bash me for this, just my thoughts.

rodent

iTrader: (1)

Man, I know what you're going through!

First, I want to say small claims in Colorado is $7500. It was raised not long ago. How do I know this?

Taking a shop here in Denver to small claims for the same product. March 2002, I pre-paid for a D1SC tuner kit through a small shop in Aurora, CO. I was thinking of GWP but the price was better with the small shop. Months go by and no word on my supercharger. Just excuses. It was the same story everytime I called. They were having a problem with their supplier and I have a feeling its from not paying them. I was promised it would be here by April or May. I keep calling every month asking the status but still being friendly and calm about the whole thing. Finally in Decemember I was fed up. I told them I've been very patient and shouldn't have to wait like this. I said that I would get a lawyer and he told me that it would just take longer to get my D1SC. I had a lawyer send a letter but it didn't help. Went to small claims and filed in January. Court date is set for March 31st. The shop wants to charge me a 25% restocking fee to get my money back which I think is BS considering they never had the part in stock. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="gr_images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="gr_images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="gr_images/icons/mad.gif" /> For now, I'm out over $5000!

<small>[ March 05, 2003, 03:11 PM: Message edited by: rodent ]</small>

LASTLS1

iTrader: (7)

Call credit card company. It does't matter if you all ready paid it TRUST ME! Would you really want him to work on your car after all this? I don't think so, just part ways. You sound like a nice guy, he also could be a nice guy . Bottom line things aren't working. Cut all ties and move on. Not worth the aggervation! Just my 2 cents. Good Luck! Andy

badz2801

rodent: I guess the information I looked up was incorrect. I will go back and check again. Never the less I don't care even if it is small claims. Ill make sure it goes the distance no matter the cost. I am sorry to hear of another honest person that has been taken advantage of. Good luck with your battle and hopefully justice will prevail.

QuickSilver2002: So far things are not working out, Kenny has yet to contact me. My mom left another message today asking him for the tracking numbers he promised. Its starting to look really bad and I assure you my legal response is ready to go.

Texas Terminator: Its really starting to look like its going to go as you suggested. Thanks for the advice.

LASTLS1: Thanks for your support and advice. Sometimes its just worth it to see things done right and to prevent this from happening again.

To everyone: Has anyone obtained any information about the financial status of GWP? If so could you please send me any information via e-mail: badz2801@hotmail.com . If you need to speak to me over the phone we can make arrangements. I give my word that your identity will be kept secret and no information will be released that could possibly identify you. Depending on the information provided (with proof) there may come a time in which I will need this information for legal proceedings. I will contact you before I use any of the information and ask for your expressed permission to do so.

Several sources have contacted me claiming GWP has financial trouble(not a fact, but an inquiry) and I am interested in knowing more. I do not know this to be true or factual in any way at this time. Please interpret this as a question and not as a true or implied statement.

Man all this and mid-terms week. <img border="0" alt="[bang head]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_banghead.gif" />

Sincerely
Badz2801

<small>[ March 05, 2003, 05:59 PM: Message edited by: badz2801 ]</small>