sequential twin turbo idea
#43
Staging Lane
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Apopka, FL
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Call Rob at Extreme Turbo Shop ... he is in Lakeland, FL close to me here. I have talked to him about this before and he said that he can source the parts ... the guy knows his stuff.
He is in the process of building a twin PT106 540ci big block right now with the intention of running 5's in a doorslammer.
His number is 863-647-3700. www.extremeturboshop.com ... there are pics of his older mustang on there, but not his new one.
He is in the process of building a twin PT106 540ci big block right now with the intention of running 5's in a doorslammer.
His number is 863-647-3700. www.extremeturboshop.com ... there are pics of his older mustang on there, but not his new one.
#45
Originally Posted by wolfy
what about an elec exhaust cutout wired thru a boost referenced relay? it sounds like youve got it pretty much all thoughtout except for the "check valve" in the downpipe...just thought id throw this out there...
-cam
-cam
Originally Posted by NOSjohn
Dual Ball Bearing turbo...you would see a big difference in spool time > 15-20%. Keep it simple.
Originally Posted by lulu
here's another interesting sequential setup approach.
Originally Posted by NXRICKY
I could see an issue with air surging. #1 turbo duning all the work until #2 is needed. once the #2 is needed the the gates or flappers open and a huge amount of flow is going to hit both sides of the #2 Boost pressure trying to spin out to the air filter, and exhaust trying to spin out the down pipe. At that moment in time what will happen, not sure, but your boost should show a stumble or dip until #2 can catch up.
Interesting for sure.
Ricky
Interesting for sure.
Ricky
Originally Posted by RyanJ
You'd spend a 1/10th on a single with a valve or a ball bearing turbo custom made for you. But hey...if you want LOGS running into a maze of pipes, some being closed, causing sun-like surface temps and the cost of two turbos, pipe, valves, etc. go ahead.
now back to the real questions.
1)will it rudece lag, i think it will at least initial lag. i shoul be able to get from idle to 600rwhp very quickly.
2)will it still have the same top end potential, i dont see why not as long as the down pipe gate is not a restriction at all and a sliding full sized gate would not be a restriction at all.
3)the real question, will i be able to make the transition from a single to twins seamless? and will my the total time to full boost(~30psi?) happen any quicker or actuly take more time over all?
i want twins for a few reasons. one is i can put real air filters on them, another is i can get twin 3" exhaust on my truck easy but a single 5" would be a pain. twins are cool looking. i will be doing twins. that part of my research is done
#48
Originally Posted by parish8
i think going to twin 72's even with the ball bearings i will still have more lag than the single pt88 i have now and that is too laggy. i took alot of the fun out of my truck when i went from a single 76 to the 88 even though i gained 350hp. i am looking at geting the fun back AND gaining more power.
I will be installing 2 - 67mm dBB turbos on a 370 c.i. motor going in a '99 T/A. They will push hard and make good power. It's all about the combination and sizing.
Twins turbos are cool, twin blonde hotties are even better.
#49
SSU Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 4,857
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ok, maybe not 1/10 the cost...but 1/10 the effort and frustration and labor costs.
Maybe I just don't understand the goal here? Why not use truck manifolds? Why not run ball bearing turbos? I get you want to run a twin, I'll lay off the single stuff. But logs and a sequential setup IMO are a recepie for disaster...unless you make the log material .5" thick. Id do something like that porche set up above but with iron manifolds and the biggest wastegate you can find.
Maybe I just don't understand the goal here? Why not use truck manifolds? Why not run ball bearing turbos? I get you want to run a twin, I'll lay off the single stuff. But logs and a sequential setup IMO are a recepie for disaster...unless you make the log material .5" thick. Id do something like that porche set up above but with iron manifolds and the biggest wastegate you can find.
#50
TECH Enthusiast
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Coppell,TX
Posts: 600
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
what would a huge sudden drop in exhaust back pressure cause?
lol hell heres what you could do, set up an electric cutout on one of the downpipe. Keep it closed for street driving and have one tune for that(backpressure should affect the tune). Then open it up for the track and have another tune for it. (My EE side keeps telling me that current travels in the path of least resistance but i dont think that works for turbos.)
or find a pwm signal off the ms(IAC stepper motor may work, not sure), then use that to control how open the cutout is, gradually decrease it in a percentage function, then rewrite your ms with new code like the LS1 Low and high octane tables, with a scaler function between them. Find the relationship between how far you open the cutout and how much more fuel you need and have a table between the cutout open percentage and the LS1 style octance scaler function. IONO just throwing out ideas.
lol hell heres what you could do, set up an electric cutout on one of the downpipe. Keep it closed for street driving and have one tune for that(backpressure should affect the tune). Then open it up for the track and have another tune for it. (My EE side keeps telling me that current travels in the path of least resistance but i dont think that works for turbos.)
or find a pwm signal off the ms(IAC stepper motor may work, not sure), then use that to control how open the cutout is, gradually decrease it in a percentage function, then rewrite your ms with new code like the LS1 Low and high octane tables, with a scaler function between them. Find the relationship between how far you open the cutout and how much more fuel you need and have a table between the cutout open percentage and the LS1 style octance scaler function. IONO just throwing out ideas.
#53
TECH Resident
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Merrillville,In (chicago)
Posts: 861
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by smokinHawk
wouldnt it be better if you wernt blocking off the downpipe but instead put one large wastegating in one of the up-pipes.
that way under the preset boost all the exhaust gasses go to one turbo, then as you hit say 10psi, the wastegate opens and feeds the other turbo.
youd probably need something like a 60mm gate
that way under the preset boost all the exhaust gasses go to one turbo, then as you hit say 10psi, the wastegate opens and feeds the other turbo.
youd probably need something like a 60mm gate
it is the closest thing to any other "factory" type system out there...porsche did it in the pic on this thread and from the looks of the mazda pic that is how they did it as well.
Just have to block the intake piping...use a staggler valve(whatever that is) it seems to be what the porsche is using.
Louie
#54
Moderator
iTrader: (9)
Originally Posted by Spenser309
lil did you know that the 5" downpipe will flow more than 2x 3" downpipes. 2x 3.5" will get you closer to, and almost the same amount of flow as the 5"
#55
Teching In
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Suburb of Montreal
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by parish8
that squential set up is a neat idea but the big turbo would have to be a monster like a 94mm thumper for the power i am looking for. that means a huge down pipe.
Originally Posted by lulu
here's another interesting sequential setup approach.
Article link : http://autospeed.drive.com.au/cms/A_2544/article.html
#56
lulu that the 3.0ltr diesel used in the 535d right?? i have heard its AMAZING!!! and even better if you let some guys chip it for you! hehe i think they are making 450lbsft and will do well over 30 to the gallon even when giving it some! hehehe
anyway great find!
i think yu will see more VNT/VG turbos coming on the market for petrol engines! they are starting to come through now. the only problems with these butties is they requier complex electronics to control them! the sequential system above looks all manual!
Chris.
anyway great find!
i think yu will see more VNT/VG turbos coming on the market for petrol engines! they are starting to come through now. the only problems with these butties is they requier complex electronics to control them! the sequential system above looks all manual!
Chris.
#57
How about using the same idea but apply a third turbo to avoid the drop in boost. With three turbos each responsible for a different rpm range you could have a car with 1000hp but still have the boost characteristics of a blower (boost from idle up) but without parasitic loss and it just might be the formula for the best street/strip setup out.
#58
Originally Posted by ChevyLaxMan
How about using the same idea but apply a third turbo to avoid the drop in boost. With three turbos each responsible for a different rpm range you could have a car with 1000hp but still have the boost characteristics of a blower (boost from idle up) but without parasitic loss and it just might be the formula for the best street/strip setup out.
right now i think i will step up to the ball bearing t72's and see how how laggy it is. i expect it to be worse than the single pt88 but if it is better then why bother. if it is the same or worse i will give the simple sequential idea a shot. just one block off valve and a one way valve should be all it takes.
#60
SSU Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 4,857
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by parish8
i am trying to keep is as simple as i can.
right now i think i will step up to the ball bearing t72's and see how how laggy it is. i expect it to be worse than the single pt88 but if it is better then why bother. if it is the same or worse i will give the simple sequential idea a shot. just one block off valve and a one way valve should be all it takes.
right now i think i will step up to the ball bearing t72's and see how how laggy it is. i expect it to be worse than the single pt88 but if it is better then why bother. if it is the same or worse i will give the simple sequential idea a shot. just one block off valve and a one way valve should be all it takes.