Going F.I. This summer!
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
From: Lafayette, LA
Going F.I. This summer! Hi guys, my car is a '98 Trans Am. This summer I'm going to have enough money to get myself a mild F.I. setup. I'm thinking about the single turbo "street" system from gmr speed. I assume I'll need new injectors and maybe even a new fuel pump, and I'd get a boost gauge, and boost controler. Is there anything else you think I'll need, spark plugs and an ignition amplifier maybe (is there even such a thing made for LS1's)?. My goal is around 400 whp on 93 octane. The reasoning behind my going for the gmr speed kit is it looks like I could upgrade it fairly easily for a lot of hp if i wish after I graduate and the T/A is no longer a daily driver. Is there another kit you guys would recommend? Thanks for the help 
I recommend the D1sc from Bob at Exotic Performance Plus. Not that much money, easy to install/tune, can be boosted up to make tons of power. Call bob he will explain EVERYTHING for you ------> sponsor on right.
Good luck
Andy
Good luck
Andy
10 Second Club
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 328
Likes: 0
From: Houston
400rwhp you can go cam only... but if you want boost then go with a D1SC procharger... A turbo setup is going to be alot more than a SC setup. The install is straight forward and pretty easy to tune. Unless you're looking to make more than 600rwhp then go with the turbo. but for 400-500 go with the SC setup.
I really dont think a mild turbo set up costs anymore than a S/C set up. Actually the STS and GMR kit are both cheaper to get running than the D1SC. I say right there are your three best options.... turbo.. GMR as you stated or STS, or D1SC if you want procharger.
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Featuring 6 different turbo kits for your F-body!
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Featuring 6 different turbo kits for your F-body!
Check us out on Facebook at: www.facebook.com/HuronSpeed
If your looking to make huge HP numbers down the road go turbo, if your going to want to stay around 500 rwhp then go with the ds1c. You will def need to upgrade your injectors (id say 42# injectors), plus a bigger fuel pump, and a real good tune.
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A D-1SC can give u power from 400rwhp at 4psi to 750rwhp maxed out. You won't have lag... You will have a killer low end and topend (Midrange is better in a Turbo). You don't need to change the head unit when upgrading the engine later on.... Its easy to install and Tune. If you plan to run more than 11psi i suggest getting the SDCE setup.
Good luck
Good luck
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i am looking to FI very soon. and like i've said before.....if you're the kindof person who is not easily satisfied with speed (after a while, what you have just doesn't feel like anything anymore) i would suggest going turbo. there are a lot more options to upgrade down the road then with SC. just my $0.02 from everything i have read here...and i do a TON of lurking and reading!
Originally Posted by bboyferal
Correct... BUT... Low end will be better on the turbo, too.
Show me a Turbo car that makes a peak of 609rwtq and at 3000-3500 RPM makes over 500rwtq while holding over 500rwtq all the way to redline?
Look up some dyno graph's of front mounts.
My peak torque on a Dynojet (no load) AND w/ 3.73's without full boost on the rollers is 470. It's over 400 from 3250 rpm until 5500 rpm. So with my turbo not working right, I get similar numbers and a similar torque curve with a weak-*** boost response (5-6 psi?). I hit 8-9 psi on the street at 3100 rpm. Anyone who knows about turbo's knows that with 9 psi at that low of an rpm, I should have about 570 rwtq and over 500 from 3k rpm until redline, too... WITH ONLY 500 ~rwhp... Hmmm... Why a higher TORQUE number than HORSEPOWER? Maybe the low end?
If I made over 600 rwhp peak, my torque peak would be about 700 and be over 600 from 3k rpm until redline. What do you think full boost at redline vs. full boost at 3k rpm will do? Come on... Also, why do you think ALL frontmount turbo's make MUCH more rwtq vs. rwhp... While the opposite is true for centrifugal superchargers?
MAYBE the blower motor has to be wound up higher for peak power? Of course low end will be better on turbo's.
Show me a Procharged/Vortech car that makes 100-200 more tq than rwhp...
Powerband... Fastest LS1 built by W2W: Twin Turbo... Fastest LT1 with a custom PTS set-up: Turbo. Loading the boost is tricky, but a properly sized turbo WILL ALWAYS make more low AND mid-range power than a centrifugal supercharger.
EDIT: Keep in mind, the turbo's numbers will be negatively skewed on any dyno anyway while the blower spins away and doesn't know if it's on a dyno or the street... And you COULD STILL see the difference in powerband... And the turbo will STILL have higher tq. numbers = more low end.
My peak torque on a Dynojet (no load) AND w/ 3.73's without full boost on the rollers is 470. It's over 400 from 3250 rpm until 5500 rpm. So with my turbo not working right, I get similar numbers and a similar torque curve with a weak-*** boost response (5-6 psi?). I hit 8-9 psi on the street at 3100 rpm. Anyone who knows about turbo's knows that with 9 psi at that low of an rpm, I should have about 570 rwtq and over 500 from 3k rpm until redline, too... WITH ONLY 500 ~rwhp... Hmmm... Why a higher TORQUE number than HORSEPOWER? Maybe the low end?
If I made over 600 rwhp peak, my torque peak would be about 700 and be over 600 from 3k rpm until redline. What do you think full boost at redline vs. full boost at 3k rpm will do? Come on... Also, why do you think ALL frontmount turbo's make MUCH more rwtq vs. rwhp... While the opposite is true for centrifugal superchargers?
MAYBE the blower motor has to be wound up higher for peak power? Of course low end will be better on turbo's.
Show me a Procharged/Vortech car that makes 100-200 more tq than rwhp...
Powerband... Fastest LS1 built by W2W: Twin Turbo... Fastest LT1 with a custom PTS set-up: Turbo. Loading the boost is tricky, but a properly sized turbo WILL ALWAYS make more low AND mid-range power than a centrifugal supercharger.
EDIT: Keep in mind, the turbo's numbers will be negatively skewed on any dyno anyway while the blower spins away and doesn't know if it's on a dyno or the street... And you COULD STILL see the difference in powerband... And the turbo will STILL have higher tq. numbers = more low end.
Last edited by bboyferal; Apr 6, 2006 at 09:48 PM.
Peaky/High powerbands: max-effort NA, small displacement motors, max-effort centrifugal blowers, over-sized turbo's, etc. <MORE RWHP THAN RWTQ>
Balanced powerbands: centifugal blowers, max-effort Roots blowers, slightly over-sized single turbo's, Street cam NA, most twin turbo's, etc. <SIMILAR TQ and HP>
BIG area powerbands: Twin Screw blowers (proper application), Big displacement and street NA, nitrous, Roots blowers (efficient app's), most single turbo's (properly-sized), many twin turbo's, etc. <MORE RWTQ THAN RWHP>
My opinion of course, loose estimation, for the sake of a rough, proportional observation with some possible mistakes.
AND this doesn't mean anything anyway because ANY powerband can run fast... Look at the fastest Supra's in the 8's on DR's. They have very peaky powerbands... But the low end for LSX's... Turbo for the win.
Balanced powerbands: centifugal blowers, max-effort Roots blowers, slightly over-sized single turbo's, Street cam NA, most twin turbo's, etc. <SIMILAR TQ and HP>
BIG area powerbands: Twin Screw blowers (proper application), Big displacement and street NA, nitrous, Roots blowers (efficient app's), most single turbo's (properly-sized), many twin turbo's, etc. <MORE RWTQ THAN RWHP>
My opinion of course, loose estimation, for the sake of a rough, proportional observation with some possible mistakes.
AND this doesn't mean anything anyway because ANY powerband can run fast... Look at the fastest Supra's in the 8's on DR's. They have very peaky powerbands... But the low end for LSX's... Turbo for the win.
Originally Posted by bboyferal
Look up some dyno graph's of front mounts.
My peak torque on a Dynojet (no load) AND w/ 3.73's without full boost on the rollers is 470. It's over 400 from 3250 rpm until 5500 rpm. So with my turbo not working right, I get similar numbers and a similar torque curve with a weak-*** boost response (5-6 psi?). I hit 8-9 psi on the street at 3100 rpm. Anyone who knows about turbo's knows that with 9 psi at that low of an rpm, I should have about 570 rwtq and over 500 from 3k rpm until redline, too... WITH ONLY 500 ~rwhp... Hmmm... Why a higher TORQUE number than HORSEPOWER? Maybe the low end?
If I made over 600 rwhp peak, my torque peak would be about 700 and be over 600 from 3k rpm until redline. What do you think full boost at redline vs. full boost at 3k rpm will do? Come on... Also, why do you think ALL frontmount turbo's make MUCH more rwtq vs. rwhp... While the opposite is true for centrifugal superchargers?
Show me a Procharged/Vortech car that makes 100-200 more tq than rwhp...
My peak torque on a Dynojet (no load) AND w/ 3.73's without full boost on the rollers is 470. It's over 400 from 3250 rpm until 5500 rpm. So with my turbo not working right, I get similar numbers and a similar torque curve with a weak-*** boost response (5-6 psi?). I hit 8-9 psi on the street at 3100 rpm. Anyone who knows about turbo's knows that with 9 psi at that low of an rpm, I should have about 570 rwtq and over 500 from 3k rpm until redline, too... WITH ONLY 500 ~rwhp... Hmmm... Why a higher TORQUE number than HORSEPOWER? Maybe the low end?
If I made over 600 rwhp peak, my torque peak would be about 700 and be over 600 from 3k rpm until redline. What do you think full boost at redline vs. full boost at 3k rpm will do? Come on... Also, why do you think ALL frontmount turbo's make MUCH more rwtq vs. rwhp... While the opposite is true for centrifugal superchargers?
Show me a Procharged/Vortech car that makes 100-200 more tq than rwhp...
Believe me i have looked at tons of dyno sheets its not even funny. When a turbo produces great low end power it will most likely run out steam around 5500rpm because its sized to work in that range. If the turbo gave great topend it will most likely suffer down low. I said midrange because usually turbos make great power in the midrange no matter what they are sized for because by that time they are already spooled. The nice thing about a SC it performs well in all ranges.
I really dont want to get into Turbo VS SC discussion now, but thats what i have seen in my experince with Turbo and SC'd cars.
If im going with a drag car setup i will most likely go with a huge single turbo plus Nitrous for spool up just because there is nothing like a huge turbo performance in midrange and topend which is what you need in a drag race.
Originally Posted by LSs1Power
Believe me i have looked at tons of dyno sheets its not even funny. When a turbo produces great low end power it will most likely run out steam around 5500rpm because its sized to work in that range. If the turbo gave great topend it will most likely suffer down low. I said midrange because usually turbos make great power in the midrange no matter what they are sized for because by that time they are already spooled...
The BETTER LOW/midrange END is WHY the TQ #'s are HIGHER than HP for MANY turbo set-ups...
Centri SC's: The better rwhp than tq is why the centrifugal blowers have mid to high on the powerband as the better area... They are wound up higher... their power is higher...
You may be right, but I would like someone to address this accordingly.
Originally Posted by bboyferal
Centri SC's: The better rwhp than tq is why the centrifugal blowers have mid to high on the powerband as the better area... They are wound up higher... their power is higher...
Its true that Centri SC are peaky in nature which is why their midrange is most likely lower than a Turbo. The reason they are peaky are because they start with a faily large amount of boost from 1500RPM for example in my case i see 10psi at 2000 RPM, but then it starts building boost slowly until redline 13psi and hold it. That is why it make more power down low and then hold great power on the top end because with a SC there is no boost drop unlike most turbo kits when they face increasing backpressure and tend to drop few psi before the redline (That also depends on the size of the turbo).
So... your peak boost is 13 psi? And you make 10 psi at 2k rpm? With a Procharger/Vortech?
Just askin'...
Oh, and...
I don't know about that...
Just askin'...
Oh, and...
Originally Posted by LSs1Power
Again higher peak TQ than peak HP doesn't mean the setup has a better low end...
Originally Posted by bboyferal
So... your peak boost is 13 psi? And you make 10 psi at 2k rpm? With a Procharger/Vortech?
Just askin'...
Oh, and...
I don't know about that...
Just askin'...
Oh, and...
I don't know about that...
You can check the dyno sheet your self and you can see the Boost log on it. The dyno shows 11.7 psi at 3600RPM and a max of 13.6psi at 6K RPM.
The same thing happend when i had the SC pullied for 8psi before.... I used to see 5psi on 2000 RPM and then it starts climbing until 8psi. With that i used to get 400rwtq at 3K RPM and 500rwtq at 4200RPM on a Dynojet. If you want to see that dyno sheet i have it somewhere too
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
From: Lafayette, LA
well I really didn't want this to turn into a SC vs Turbo thread as I'm sure there are a plethora already. Thanks for the info though. And yes I will be going with the turbo because my plans are to upgrade later for around 750ish hp. Plus I really like turbo noises!