First E85 LSx setup? Anyone doing this?
Thread Starter
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From: Austin, TX
First E85 LSx setup? Anyone doing this? I'd love to see someone in the midwest try to build a set up to solely run E85. I think you'd see it a lot more if it was available everywhere.
I think I may have heard of one member doing this....but I have no proof.
Anyone building or planning to build an E85 setup?
I think I may have heard of one member doing this....but I have no proof.
Anyone building or planning to build an E85 setup?
What's the difference between an E85 setup and any other setup???
Maybe slightly larger fuel/pump injectors if you are maxing your current setup on 100% gas? No intercooler?
Enlighten me. lol
Maybe slightly larger fuel/pump injectors if you are maxing your current setup on 100% gas? No intercooler?
Enlighten me. lol
Originally Posted by RyanJ
I'd love to see someone in the midwest try to build a set up to solely run E85. I think you'd see it a lot more if it was available everywhere.
I think I may have heard of one member doing this....but I have no proof.
Anyone building or planning to build an E85 setup?
I think I may have heard of one member doing this....but I have no proof.
Anyone building or planning to build an E85 setup?
Originally Posted by Tiago
2 x the fuel requirements lol
great octane benefits, you still need intercooler
great octane benefits, you still need intercooler
Better evaporative cooling effects than gasoline as well so cooler running engine/inlet temps. Higher octane.
Harder starting though. I believe it also settles out when left sit for awhile which is a problem.
Thread Starter
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From: Austin, TX
It was just a question. I thought I would break up all the STS and OBX questions with some discussion.
I don't have access to E85, but I would have assumed that if you can get it at the pump for cheaper and you're not really using 2x the fuel, it would be a huge benefit to all the FI guys. 105ish octane at less than $5/gallon or whatever it is would seem like a big plus, but I've only heard of one Mustang using it (as far as hi-po cars go).
Just asking.
I don't have access to E85, but I would have assumed that if you can get it at the pump for cheaper and you're not really using 2x the fuel, it would be a huge benefit to all the FI guys. 105ish octane at less than $5/gallon or whatever it is would seem like a big plus, but I've only heard of one Mustang using it (as far as hi-po cars go).
Just asking.
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Originally Posted by RyanJ
It was just a question. I thought I would break up all the STS and OBX questions with some discussion.
I don't have access to E85, but I would have assumed that if you can get it at the pump for cheaper and you're not really using 2x the fuel, it would be a huge benefit to all the FI guys. 105ish octane at less than $5/gallon or whatever it is would seem like a big plus, but I've only heard of one Mustang using it (as far as hi-po cars go).
Just asking.
I don't have access to E85, but I would have assumed that if you can get it at the pump for cheaper and you're not really using 2x the fuel, it would be a huge benefit to all the FI guys. 105ish octane at less than $5/gallon or whatever it is would seem like a big plus, but I've only heard of one Mustang using it (as far as hi-po cars go).
Just asking.
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Staging Lane
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 73
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we already have a '98 C5 A4 procharged car on E85, made 457 whp on street tune... details will be given later
...as well as about 20 other beta testers...
andy
nonsponser info deleted
...as well as about 20 other beta testers...
andy
nonsponser info deleted
Last edited by smokinHawk; Jun 2, 2006 at 07:48 AM. Reason: nonsponser
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2004
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From: Loganville, GA
Why 2 times the fuel requirements? That's what I haven't understood...
Higher octane (105), but burns faster than regular 93 gas... Not only that, but less MPG?
I'm assuming the fuel components (injectors and fuel pumps) get larger because we're having to burn more Ethanol, than we would be burning on gas.. Right?
Higher octane (105), but burns faster than regular 93 gas... Not only that, but less MPG?
I'm assuming the fuel components (injectors and fuel pumps) get larger because we're having to burn more Ethanol, than we would be burning on gas.. Right?
Thread Starter
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From: Austin, TX
The burn rate and stoich is different for alcohol (ethonol). Pure alcohol is 6:1. This is a mix (85/15 Eth/Gas) so its not that off. Some say 80% more some say less. There's a cool thread on turbomustangs.com about them running it. According to what I've read you need 1.4-times the amount compared to gas.
its not like you get 8 mpg or anything, its a few more gallons comparitively I think. And its cheaper by the gallon than 93 and WAY cheaper than 104 or 110 race gas.
So...$3.00 for 93 x 10 gal = $30 vs. $2.20-2.75 for E85 x 14 gal = $30.50-38.50. 93 octane vs. ~105 octane. Dirty vs. clean (MUCH better emissions). I don't know what the cost for unleaded 104 costs, but I'm sure its double the price of E85.
its not like you get 8 mpg or anything, its a few more gallons comparitively I think. And its cheaper by the gallon than 93 and WAY cheaper than 104 or 110 race gas.
So...$3.00 for 93 x 10 gal = $30 vs. $2.20-2.75 for E85 x 14 gal = $30.50-38.50. 93 octane vs. ~105 octane. Dirty vs. clean (MUCH better emissions). I don't know what the cost for unleaded 104 costs, but I'm sure its double the price of E85.
Last edited by RyanJ; May 30, 2006 at 04:38 PM.
Thread Starter
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From: Austin, TX
Originally Posted by LTLHOMER
Damn it's that expensive??? My c16 is 10/gallon (only need about half as much as e85) so it would barely save me anything...that and it's not even as good a fuel as c16 (octane and etc). If it was the same price as normal gas or maybe even a dollar more I'd think about it.
When you guys say 80% more than gas. Does that mean our fuel system is going to be upgraded to push 80% more volume than the current fuel gas system? So instead of running 60lbs injectors we would need 100-120lbs injectors? If thats the case then its going to be really hard to do unless we go with a stand alone system running 16 injectors or just big single low impedence injectors.
Originally Posted by LSs1Power
When you guys say 80% more than gas. Does that mean our fuel system is going to be upgraded to push 80% more volume than the current fuel gas system? So instead of running 60lbs injectors we would need 100-120lbs injectors? If thats the case then its going to be really hard to do unless we go with a stand alone system running 16 injectors or just big single low impedence injectors.
Ratio Lambda
Gasoline stoich 14.7 0.068 1 1
Gasoline Max power rich 12.5 0.08 1.176 0.8503
Gasoline Max power lean 13.23 0.0755 1.111 0.900
E85 stoich 9.765 0.10235 1 1
E85 Max power rich 6.975 0.1434 1.40 0.7143
E85 Max power lean 8.4687 0.118 1.153 0.8673
E100 stoich 9.0078 0.111 1 1
E100 Max power rich 6.429 0.155 1.4 0.714
E100 Max power lean 7.8 0.128 1.15 0.870
Gas max power is 12.5...e85 max power is 6.975. That's means it needs 80% more fuel. The reason is because e85 contains an alcohol which for those non-chem majors means it contains an OH or oxygen-hydrogen in its structure. Since it already contains an oxygen in itself, it's going to need more fuel than a similar hydrocarbon (ie gasoline) that does not have any oxygen atoms in it. That's a brief explanation and is probably somewhat wrong but it gets the point across.
The basic reaction for any hydrocarbon is:
HC Fuel + x(3.76N2 + 02) = products of CO CO2 H20 N2 O2 sometimes etc.
If you have some O's in the fuel already, you're obviously going to need more fuel (or less air but obviously we don't want to do that) to make up for it.
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From: Anheuser Busch, Houston Texas
Ok so as was once mentioned before ...what about butanol? 4 carbon alcohol, more hydrogen, more btus.
octane should be high, and its much less evaporative than either gas or ethanol. These things have to be good for something, no?
octane should be high, and its much less evaporative than either gas or ethanol. These things have to be good for something, no?
Originally Posted by lo_jack
Ok so as was once mentioned before ...what about butanol? 4 carbon alcohol, more hydrogen, more btus.
octane should be high, and its much less evaporative than either gas or ethanol. These things have to be good for something, no?
octane should be high, and its much less evaporative than either gas or ethanol. These things have to be good for something, no?
A hydrocarbon fuel is a hydrocarbon fuel is a hydrocarbon fuel. It's everything else that determines what we can use safely and economically.
this is the thread.. guy make 1krw with three walbro 255's. fuel system is no big deal
http://www.turbomustangs.com/smf/ind...?topic=47094.0
http://www.turbomustangs.com/smf/ind...?topic=47094.0
They ran the E85 at 12:1????
They must be mistaken or that thing would be running beyond SUPER lean. Stoich E85 is 9.76. Max power rich is around 7.0 as opposed to 12.5 or so for gasoline.
Never mind he's using gasoline AFR's which means he's at about 0.85 equivalence ratio which is on the money. I knew something had to be messed up there...I need to learn to read the whole post. lol
They must be mistaken or that thing would be running beyond SUPER lean. Stoich E85 is 9.76. Max power rich is around 7.0 as opposed to 12.5 or so for gasoline.
Never mind he's using gasoline AFR's which means he's at about 0.85 equivalence ratio which is on the money. I knew something had to be messed up there...I need to learn to read the whole post. lol
Launching!
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 260
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From: Pittsburgh, PA
For my senior design project at Virginia Tech, we created a hybrid Equinox using a Saab E85 engine directly from Sweeden. I have the data for the engine on my other computer but it made somewhere around 160bhp on 100% gas and 190bhp on E85. It used the same block and heads as its American gas only counterpart. Configuration was a 2.0L 4 cylinder turbo running about 7psi. I don't see a reason why this can't be adapted to a turbo or SC LSX engine.
Also, we put a piece of standard fuel line in a bottle of gas and another piece in a bottle of E85 and left them to test the corrosiveness of the E85. After about 1 month, each fuel line showed no signs of corroding.
Matt
Also, we put a piece of standard fuel line in a bottle of gas and another piece in a bottle of E85 and left them to test the corrosiveness of the E85. After about 1 month, each fuel line showed no signs of corroding.
Matt
hey matt you should stop by our club website sometime
sounds like a cool project. looks like you found out that there isnt much special about an 'e85' engine.
did you retune for each fuel?
sounds like a cool project. looks like you found out that there isnt much special about an 'e85' engine.
did you retune for each fuel?