superchargers pro&cons
The turbo is not more "streetable" just more fun on the street.
SC guys like the centrifugal SC for the street because it's more predictable... Basically, if the rpms aren't high enough, there is not enough boost to lose control or break tires loose. Thereby, this set-up can be considered "streetable."
Turbo guys with a properly matched set-up like it for the street because there is no need to wind up the motor to hit full boost. I used to punch my sorry little 8.5 psi on the highway at ~2800 rpm, hit full boost, pass up a car turning heads, and shift at ~3900 rpm or so... That's FUN ON THE STREET.
Food for thought, a KB Vette has just recently made OVER 850 rwhp on their 2.6L, 2.8L (I forget) Twin Screw positive displacement supercharger.
Over 800 rwtq was available at 2k rpm. NOW that's fun on the street to me...
But I guess this wouldn't be more fun on the street for some people from what I read here.
You control power with the throttle, not RPM position.
Of course, if you're racing and will be at high RPM's at WOT, none of this will matter for ET and mph.
Of course, the simplicity of a centrifugal supercharger lends a constistency that make it very much fun on the track where it will be ***** to the wall...
BUT, then again, if this Whipple actually fits, it will be consistent as well, with none of the disadvantages of the centri. units.
If this is a race car, either way will get the E.T., centri OR Twin Screw/Roots.
If this is a street car, not necessarily "streetable," I say 5L Whipple for the win, and you make it streetable with your right foot from now on instead of your motor's screams.
All input from you guys are excellent. This is just my $0.02, not really refuting much of the previous, good points.
Remember, a centrifugal supercharged car WILL ALWAYS MAKE MORE RWHP THAN RWTQ. If you know how to do the math starting from the TQ figures, you'd know this is from a "higher, peakier" powerband. Properly matched turbos, as well as positive displacement superchargers, will make more rwtq than rwhp. Likewise, the math would reveal the torque to be MUCH SOONER on the powerband instead. This part is just math.
Long Live All FI!!!
The banks and parts manufacturers will not complain no matter which way we choose.
SC guys like the centrifugal SC for the street because it's more predictable... Basically, if the rpms aren't high enough, there is not enough boost to lose control or break tires loose. Thereby, this set-up can be considered "streetable."
Turbo guys with a properly matched set-up like it for the street because there is no need to wind up the motor to hit full boost. I used to punch my sorry little 8.5 psi on the highway at ~2800 rpm, hit full boost, pass up a car turning heads, and shift at ~3900 rpm or so... That's FUN ON THE STREET.
Food for thought, a KB Vette has just recently made OVER 850 rwhp on their 2.6L, 2.8L (I forget) Twin Screw positive displacement supercharger.
Over 800 rwtq was available at 2k rpm. NOW that's fun on the street to me...
But I guess this wouldn't be more fun on the street for some people from what I read here.
You control power with the throttle, not RPM position.
Of course, if you're racing and will be at high RPM's at WOT, none of this will matter for ET and mph.
Of course, the simplicity of a centrifugal supercharger lends a constistency that make it very much fun on the track where it will be ***** to the wall...
BUT, then again, if this Whipple actually fits, it will be consistent as well, with none of the disadvantages of the centri. units.
If this is a race car, either way will get the E.T., centri OR Twin Screw/Roots.
If this is a street car, not necessarily "streetable," I say 5L Whipple for the win, and you make it streetable with your right foot from now on instead of your motor's screams.
All input from you guys are excellent. This is just my $0.02, not really refuting much of the previous, good points.
Remember, a centrifugal supercharged car WILL ALWAYS MAKE MORE RWHP THAN RWTQ. If you know how to do the math starting from the TQ figures, you'd know this is from a "higher, peakier" powerband. Properly matched turbos, as well as positive displacement superchargers, will make more rwtq than rwhp. Likewise, the math would reveal the torque to be MUCH SOONER on the powerband instead. This part is just math.
Long Live All FI!!!The banks and parts manufacturers will not complain no matter which way we choose.
Last edited by bboyferal; Sep 18, 2006 at 09:45 PM.
Not flaming just putting in my 2cts...
Originally Posted by bboyferal
The turbo is not more "streetable" just more fun on the street.
Not exactly sure how you've come to that conclusion??? Whats more fun than pulling into a GTG and everyone turning their head trying to figure out what car has that distinctive sound of a well built SC motor. Then of course theres the "playin" later that evening that shows the SC is not all bark but plenty of bite...now thats fun on the street!
SC guys like the centrifugal SC for the street because it's more predictable... Basically, if the rpms aren't high enough, there is not enough boost to lose control or break tires loose. Thereby, this set-up can be considered "streetable."
WHAT? Your kidding right?? I think you have very little experience with a well put together SC engine. You can make GOOBS of power at as little as 3000rpms...more than most tire/street combinations can handle.
Turbo guys with a properly matched set-up like it for the street because there is no need to wind up the motor to hit full boost. I used to punch my sorry little 8.5 psi on the highway at ~2800 rpm, hit full boost, pass up a car turning heads, and shift at ~3900 rpm or so... That's FUN ON THE STREET.
You can do the same exact thing with a SC set up...
Food for thought, a KB Vette has just recently made OVER 850 rwhp on their 2.6L, 2.8L (I forget) Twin Screw positive displacement supercharger.
Over 800 rwtq was available at 2k rpm. NOW that's fun on the street to me...
But I guess this wouldn't be more fun on the street for some people from what I read here.
Not usable power at all...fun...maybe somewhat, but not usable.
You control power with the throttle, not RPM position.
Exactly...same with a good combination SC motor as well
Of course, if you're racing and will be at high RPM's at WOT, none of this will matter for ET and mph.
Of course, the simplicity of a centrifugal supercharger lends a constistency that make it very much fun on the track where it will be ***** to the wall...
Don't forget the "street" playin'...
BUT, then again, if this Whipple actually fits, it will be consistent as well, with none of the disadvantages of the centri. units.
If this is a race car, either way will get the E.T., centri OR Twin Screw/Roots.
If this is a street car, not necessarily "streetable," I say 5L Whipple for the win, and you make it streetable with your right foot from now on instead of your motor's screams.
All input from you guys are excellent. This is just my $0.02, not really refuting much of the previous, good points.
Remember, a centrifugal supercharged car WILL ALWAYS MAKE MORE RWHP THAN RWTQ. If you know how to do the math starting from the TQ figures, you'd know this is from a "higher, peakier" powerband. Properly matched turbos, as well as positive displacement superchargers, will make more rwtq than rwhp. Likewise, the math would reveal the torque to be MUCH SOONER on the powerband instead. This part is just math.
Long Live All FI!!!
The banks will not complain no matter which way we choose.
Ain't that the truth!!!
Not exactly sure how you've come to that conclusion??? Whats more fun than pulling into a GTG and everyone turning their head trying to figure out what car has that distinctive sound of a well built SC motor. Then of course theres the "playin" later that evening that shows the SC is not all bark but plenty of bite...now thats fun on the street!
SC guys like the centrifugal SC for the street because it's more predictable... Basically, if the rpms aren't high enough, there is not enough boost to lose control or break tires loose. Thereby, this set-up can be considered "streetable."
WHAT? Your kidding right?? I think you have very little experience with a well put together SC engine. You can make GOOBS of power at as little as 3000rpms...more than most tire/street combinations can handle.
Turbo guys with a properly matched set-up like it for the street because there is no need to wind up the motor to hit full boost. I used to punch my sorry little 8.5 psi on the highway at ~2800 rpm, hit full boost, pass up a car turning heads, and shift at ~3900 rpm or so... That's FUN ON THE STREET.
You can do the same exact thing with a SC set up...
Food for thought, a KB Vette has just recently made OVER 850 rwhp on their 2.6L, 2.8L (I forget) Twin Screw positive displacement supercharger.
Over 800 rwtq was available at 2k rpm. NOW that's fun on the street to me...
But I guess this wouldn't be more fun on the street for some people from what I read here.
Not usable power at all...fun...maybe somewhat, but not usable.
You control power with the throttle, not RPM position.
Exactly...same with a good combination SC motor as well
Of course, if you're racing and will be at high RPM's at WOT, none of this will matter for ET and mph.
Of course, the simplicity of a centrifugal supercharger lends a constistency that make it very much fun on the track where it will be ***** to the wall...
Don't forget the "street" playin'...
BUT, then again, if this Whipple actually fits, it will be consistent as well, with none of the disadvantages of the centri. units.
If this is a race car, either way will get the E.T., centri OR Twin Screw/Roots.
If this is a street car, not necessarily "streetable," I say 5L Whipple for the win, and you make it streetable with your right foot from now on instead of your motor's screams.
All input from you guys are excellent. This is just my $0.02, not really refuting much of the previous, good points.
Remember, a centrifugal supercharged car WILL ALWAYS MAKE MORE RWHP THAN RWTQ. If you know how to do the math starting from the TQ figures, you'd know this is from a "higher, peakier" powerband. Properly matched turbos, as well as positive displacement superchargers, will make more rwtq than rwhp. Likewise, the math would reveal the torque to be MUCH SOONER on the powerband instead. This part is just math.
Long Live All FI!!!The banks will not complain no matter which way we choose.
Ain't that the truth!!!
This part right here, though:
WHAT? Your kidding right?? I think you have very little experience with a well put together SC engine. You can make GOOBS of power at as little as 3000rpms...more than most tire/street combinations can handle.
P.S. What's a GTG???
Keep in mind that a centrifical supercharger that is pullied to make 8 psi will take more rpm to make boost, than one that is pullied to make 16 psi. An ATI ProCharger that is set up to make 16 psi will bring on the boost pretty low in the rpm band. The ATI ProCharger and it's efficient air to air intercooler(s) make for a very good combination as the inlet air temps stay much lower than a lot of other supercharger combinations that are out on the market. Bob
We start the dyno pull at 3000 RPM IIRC, and the power is above 500 pretty much instantly. I don't care what you use to make power, once you're at 600 RWHP and above, traction is a problem on the street. Traction wins street races, not power (for the most part). I've beat a few faster cars pretty bad because I hooked and they didn't. Now, I have the problem with too much power so I have to learn to drive differently.
Like I said, a properly built SC setup will give you plenty of benefits, theres alot of misinformation out there though. I have owned a couple turbo cars too, and to be honest, its hard to tell the difference behind the wheel. In my cars, once boost comes on, you're too busy driving to think about where the power is coming from.
Like I said, a properly built SC setup will give you plenty of benefits, theres alot of misinformation out there though. I have owned a couple turbo cars too, and to be honest, its hard to tell the difference behind the wheel. In my cars, once boost comes on, you're too busy driving to think about where the power is coming from.
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Originally Posted by Steel Chicken
800rwhp is gonna be tough with a supercharger. an uber pulleyd ATI might be able to do it, or maybe a whipple. ( I dont know much about whipples)
you might want to look into turbos as well.
I have a maggie myself, and while it doesn't make huge numbers its a great daily driver street solution.
you might want to look into turbos as well.
I have a maggie myself, and while it doesn't make huge numbers its a great daily driver street solution.
You need to read GMHTP Feb 2006 issue.
Robert Barth built an 02 SS that made 830 RWHP using ported stock heads, stock crank and stock block. He used the Procharger D1SC with the 8 rib pulley kit.
I figure if you have a vehicle that is making 800+ to the wheels then this isn't going to be a daily driver. And I do believe the article stated that he could make a few changes and run on pump gas and still make plenty of power for the street.
If a 2.8L KB made over 800 rwtq, at 2k rpm BTW, on a Vette, then I'm pretty sure the 5L Whipple can go MUCH higher than that... If we're talking race gas, then 800 isn't much to me AT ALL. I don't believe that is too impressive. The stock heads is MAYBE the only thing that stands out to me.
If I knew then what I knew now, I would have got the ATI setup. If you want a turbo, you better be very mechanically inclined or have very deep pockets. The ATI is a bolt in kit and well thought out and can make the power you want. The turbo takes a long time to get, twice the blumbing and 10xs the headache to install. Picture 50lbs of **** in a 5lb bag youll get the idea.
You don't have to do it if you don't want to. I wouldn't do someting on my car I'm not comfortable with, even if I lose some money in the process... Happiness is #1 with these things... These things cost way too much money to have a set-up you're not happy with in the end.
Originally Posted by CrawlinWS6
It depends on what kinda of motor your putting it on. You won't be able to make those kind of numbers on a stock ls1 or even a h/c ls1. I am in the same ballpark. Thats why I am going with a forged 408 with a d1sc procharger. My goal is 850rwhp
I found an example that used a stock cubes and ported stock heads with the d1sc making 830 rwhp albeit on race gas.
The original poster of this thread wanted to know the pros and cons of super charging.
The pros I think are a lot of useable power to have a lot of fun.
The cons speeding tickets and gas stations.
not everybody is building a race car and wants to cut up their cowls just to have a twin screw either.
bboy i think its a safe assumpion to say you're biased towards turbos. I can take you for a ride in my supercharged car and show you how a decent combo feels on the street.
I like both I vote for both as long as your fast who cares right?
If I keep my car, I'd like to try out the tti street kit or the speed inc twin turbo kit whichever has the potential to make the most horsepower..
bboy i think its a safe assumpion to say you're biased towards turbos. I can take you for a ride in my supercharged car and show you how a decent combo feels on the street.
I like both I vote for both as long as your fast who cares right?
If I keep my car, I'd like to try out the tti street kit or the speed inc twin turbo kit whichever has the potential to make the most horsepower..
Originally Posted by Got Me SOM
not everybody is building a race car and wants to cut up their cowls just to have a twin screw either.
bboy i think its a safe assumpion to say you're biased towards turbos. I can take you for a ride in my supercharged car and show you how a decent combo feels on the street.
I like both I vote for both as long as your fast who cares right?
If I keep my car, I'd like to try out the tti street kit or the speed inc twin turbo kit whichever has the potential to make the most horsepower..
bboy i think its a safe assumpion to say you're biased towards turbos. I can take you for a ride in my supercharged car and show you how a decent combo feels on the street.
I like both I vote for both as long as your fast who cares right?
If I keep my car, I'd like to try out the tti street kit or the speed inc twin turbo kit whichever has the potential to make the most horsepower..
The thread creator gave me the impression the car was NOT a street car but a race car... He didn't seem too concerned about the size of the 3.3 and 5 Liter Whipples. Obviously, you or I couldn't do that.
I AM biased toward turbo's. However, I am only asking here between the F-1SC and 5L Whipple that the TC brought up first... Whether or not the Whipple 3.3L/5L can make over 800 rwhp and what the pro's and con's are between this and an F-1SC that we KNOW can make the peak numbers... I'm not exactly talking turbos right now.
I'd love to ride to ride in your beautiful car OF COURSE, but it wouldn't show what a decent combo is. I already KNOW what a decent combo is since, like you, I drive a decent combo myself on the weekends... But I'll never turn down a fun ride... Just try to obey SOME traffic laws while I'm in there.
I wouldn't have minded somebody offering firsthand experiences with the F-1 and/or Whipple... That's all I'm looking for in this thread, bro.
there's one guy that is making 800 on the corvette forum I believe, i forgot how much torque he had but it was all there at 2000 rpm. can you imagine that.
whipple will have more snap instantaneously without a doubt, centrifugals even the big ones make more power up top.
I'd love to throw the YSi on my car to see how much more fun that feels. If i went turbo I'd have to change a lot but the car would pull harder and it would be cool to have a Twin Turbo SOM SS. that just sounds cool to me lol.
is your car done yet? how much power are you looking to make now? i was supposed to take my car to rev ex today to get tuned but its my sons bday and i'm worn out as well.
I do have to say there's nothing cooler sounding than a whiney supercharger at idle, it commands attention!
whipple will have more snap instantaneously without a doubt, centrifugals even the big ones make more power up top.
I'd love to throw the YSi on my car to see how much more fun that feels. If i went turbo I'd have to change a lot but the car would pull harder and it would be cool to have a Twin Turbo SOM SS. that just sounds cool to me lol.
is your car done yet? how much power are you looking to make now? i was supposed to take my car to rev ex today to get tuned but its my sons bday and i'm worn out as well.
I do have to say there's nothing cooler sounding than a whiney supercharger at idle, it commands attention!