Is alky really worth it? Im getting mixed opinions
#21
![Default](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Oy vey!
To me if you have good AFR numbers without alky, and no knock, you're just wasting money to add it. If you have knock, then it would help, but I would question your tune.
Jim
To me if you have good AFR numbers without alky, and no knock, you're just wasting money to add it. If you have knock, then it would help, but I would question your tune.
Jim
#22
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Phoenix AZ
Posts: 1,005
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
![](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/ranks/ls1tech10year.png)
![Default](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Meth is FAR from adding 5 hp. What i mean is that itself may not add power but it adds the ability to add more boost and timing. U can EASILY add 100 more rwhp with meth. People on here saying that they have heard of peoples cars gettin screwed cause of meth systems not running. Well i bought a Alkycontrol kit from Julio and it has 3 leds. 1 to let me know its ready to pump. 1 to tell me that its actually pumping and 1 to let me know its low on meth. So if i put that led that tells me that its workin somewhere that i can easily see when im full throttle then i cna see that it its working. Also i have my wideband o2 gauge. If i were to lose the meth then my wideband would go super lean and would alert me. So most i would be in it is 1 second. And i dont think that is gonna have huge negative effects.
I cant imagine why people wouldnt use it. And to the people that say ur stupid if u dont have race gas in when u wanna make race gas numbers, im on the gas ALOT. So what am i supposed to do. Drive with 10$ a gallon gas in it all the time? Or jsut use the 2.50$ a gallon meth?
Its far from a bandaid. Thats like calling race gas a bandaid.
So im ready fopr a race 100% of the time thanks to the meth. So il be happy to pound the pump gas people into the ground thanks to it. GL
John
I cant imagine why people wouldnt use it. And to the people that say ur stupid if u dont have race gas in when u wanna make race gas numbers, im on the gas ALOT. So what am i supposed to do. Drive with 10$ a gallon gas in it all the time? Or jsut use the 2.50$ a gallon meth?
Its far from a bandaid. Thats like calling race gas a bandaid.
So im ready fopr a race 100% of the time thanks to the meth. So il be happy to pound the pump gas people into the ground thanks to it. GL
John
#23
TECH Veteran
iTrader: (1)
![Default](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
I adjust my timing vs IAT tables so that if the meth quits working the motor doesn't blow. I HAVE had the meth quit because of a bad wiring connection, and the IAT safeguard DID protect the motor. I see no reason not to take advantage of it, provided the proper safeguards are put in the tune. For everyone who calls this a bandaid--So what?
#24
TECH Enthusiast
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Loganville, GA
Posts: 604
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
![](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/ranks/ls1tech10year.png)
![Default](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Originally Posted by 99SS-T
Meth is FAR from adding 5 hp. What i mean is that itself may not add power but it adds the ability to add more boost and timing. U can EASILY add 100 more rwhp with meth. People on here saying that they have heard of peoples cars gettin screwed cause of meth systems not running. Well i bought a Alkycontrol kit from Julio and it has 3 leds. 1 to let me know its ready to pump. 1 to tell me that its actually pumping and 1 to let me know its low on meth. So if i put that led that tells me that its workin somewhere that i can easily see when im full throttle then i cna see that it its working. Also i have my wideband o2 gauge. If i were to lose the meth then my wideband would go super lean and would alert me. So most i would be in it is 1 second. And i dont think that is gonna have huge negative effects.
I cant imagine why people wouldnt use it. And to the people that say ur stupid if u dont have race gas in when u wanna make race gas numbers, im on the gas ALOT. So what am i supposed to do. Drive with 10$ a gallon gas in it all the time? Or jsut use the 2.50$ a gallon meth?
Its far from a bandaid. Thats like calling race gas a bandaid.
So im ready fopr a race 100% of the time thanks to the meth. So il be happy to pound the pump gas people into the ground thanks to it. GL
John
I cant imagine why people wouldnt use it. And to the people that say ur stupid if u dont have race gas in when u wanna make race gas numbers, im on the gas ALOT. So what am i supposed to do. Drive with 10$ a gallon gas in it all the time? Or jsut use the 2.50$ a gallon meth?
Its far from a bandaid. Thats like calling race gas a bandaid.
So im ready fopr a race 100% of the time thanks to the meth. So il be happy to pound the pump gas people into the ground thanks to it. GL
John
#26
8 Second Club
iTrader: (18)
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Waterloo, Ontario
Posts: 2,609
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
![](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/ranks/ls1tech10year.png)
![Default](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Originally Posted by Drewstein
Neither can I, and I don't run bandaids like alky.
Alky is the cheap fix for those to jewish to run race gas to be safe. Adding systems that can fail is just moronic. Make 5 less hp to the wheels and know all you have to do is put 91 in her and not worry about the bandaid failing you.
Alky is the cheap fix for those to jewish to run race gas to be safe. Adding systems that can fail is just moronic. Make 5 less hp to the wheels and know all you have to do is put 91 in her and not worry about the bandaid failing you.
![Happy](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_stretch.gif)
Last edited by eb02z06; 10-20-2006 at 09:44 PM.
#27
TECH Resident
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Castro Valley, CA
Posts: 832
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
![Default](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
WTF with the "jewish" remark? And it sounds like 91 is "high" octane to this guy???
I'll second what Gametech said above; know where your IAT's should be when your methanol is spraying, and then tune to remove timing if they should suddenly spike (methanol delivery failure). Automatic safety.
I'll second what Gametech said above; know where your IAT's should be when your methanol is spraying, and then tune to remove timing if they should suddenly spike (methanol delivery failure). Automatic safety.
#29
FormerVendor
iTrader: (45)
![Default](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Originally Posted by NicD
Do you guys really think that your IAT sensor responds quick enough to stop detonation if the meth kit suddenly fails? The IAT sensor doesn't respond instantly, which is what you would need if you are using meth to run increased timing, not just extra fuel.
Last summer, before the meth, on test runs with WAAAAY low timing, I could see IATs approach 190degF
![EEK !!](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_eek2.gif)
I know tuners guard their knowledge resources like a pirate hordes gold
![The Jester](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_jest.gif)
#30
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Phoenix AZ
Posts: 1,005
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
![](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/ranks/ls1tech10year.png)
![Default](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Originally Posted by Pro Stock John
Poor choice of words, I suggest you don't keep posting stuff like that if you want to be on this board.
ADMIn
ADMIn
John
#32
7 Second Club
iTrader: (7)
![Default](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Frost, yes it does work and it usually reads a lower than ambient air temp when the meth is spraying but it doesn't react instantly if it stops. This is where the false sense of security comes in because it doesn't react instantly and you will still run with the higher timing for just a few seconds even if meth stops and it could pop. Of course this all depends on how much more timing you are running with meth.
#33
10 Second Club
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Marysville, WA
Posts: 9,448
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
![Default](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Take all the emotional comments out & the facts are meth allows you to run more timing without running $8/gal race gas. And it eliminates the need for a FMIC so you lower your risk of detonation. So from just the cost stand point it's a much better choice.
You can run a 50/50 mix for just cooling, or 100% & gain a little more power. And my Alky Control kit has the 3 LEDs too, so it gives you status. I guess I have one because after sinking $20k into my engine & blower, I feel safer about it not blowing up. But to each his own.
You can run a 50/50 mix for just cooling, or 100% & gain a little more power. And my Alky Control kit has the 3 LEDs too, so it gives you status. I guess I have one because after sinking $20k into my engine & blower, I feel safer about it not blowing up. But to each his own.
#34
TECH Veteran
iTrader: (1)
![Default](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
The facts are that most of us are taking a motor designed to be reliable at about 300RWHP, and pushing anywhere from 500-1000RWHP. I will gladly take as many band-aids(TM?) as I can find. I am not going to tell anyone that meth is 100% safe, nothing is. However, for those of us willing to risk it, there is a ridiculous performance gain to be had on a HP/$ basis. The cost/vs benefit is nearly nothing N/A, and outrageously good FI.
#35
8 Second Club
iTrader: (34)
![Default](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
IMO using meth is great for a pump gas street car if you are looking for max power every possible moment. low risk.
Using it instead of an intercooler is too much of a risk IMO, if it fails you are in trouble, intercoolers dont fail (A2A anyhow). high risk
Using it to make up for a too-small fuel system or injectors is a band aid and thats that. high risk
I'm not sure what non intercooled race cars are using gasoline/meth injection as opposed to running methanol or straight race gas but I havent seen any. Everyone always asks me why I dont have it on my car, its because I run good gas at the track and I dont think it will help me one tiny bit and I have no problem losing 100hp with an ultra safe pump gas tune on the the street. Generally I can keep ahead of most civics and mini vans with a 100 less hp. Now if I wanted to be a pump gas hero at the track I'm sure it would help![Winky](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_wink.gif)
Thats pretty much it and I'm not so sure why people are so passionate about it, there is no argument it works as advertised when properly installed. Like anything else that requires electricity and has moving parts it can fail and requires you to keep an eye on it and maybe have a couple safegaurds in case it doesnt work.
Using it instead of an intercooler is too much of a risk IMO, if it fails you are in trouble, intercoolers dont fail (A2A anyhow). high risk
Using it to make up for a too-small fuel system or injectors is a band aid and thats that. high risk
I'm not sure what non intercooled race cars are using gasoline/meth injection as opposed to running methanol or straight race gas but I havent seen any. Everyone always asks me why I dont have it on my car, its because I run good gas at the track and I dont think it will help me one tiny bit and I have no problem losing 100hp with an ultra safe pump gas tune on the the street. Generally I can keep ahead of most civics and mini vans with a 100 less hp. Now if I wanted to be a pump gas hero at the track I'm sure it would help
![Winky](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_wink.gif)
Thats pretty much it and I'm not so sure why people are so passionate about it, there is no argument it works as advertised when properly installed. Like anything else that requires electricity and has moving parts it can fail and requires you to keep an eye on it and maybe have a couple safegaurds in case it doesnt work.
#36
![Default](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Take a look at the article on page 130 of the new December issue of Hot Rod magazine, regarding a new methanol set-up that lowers the risk. This might not be a bad way to go. Bob
#37
TECH Enthusiast
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: May 2004
Location: council bluffs Iowa
Posts: 565
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
![](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/ranks/ls1tech10year.png)
![Default](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
I run the new m3 oxygenated meth from vp, and when I shut it off at the dyno the a/f only moved from 11.6 to 11.7. Only 1 tenth, and I run 26 gal an hour, twin 13 gph jets. I thought that was cool. As far as safeguarding the motor from failure with high timing, if I was going to race back to back races I would run racegas as a safeguard. If you run a quality kit and have it rebuilt every so often and put it together right, its as reliable as the rest of your car. You just cant get toooo crazy with the timing.
#38
10 Second Club
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Marysville, WA
Posts: 9,448
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
![Default](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
I see no difference in running race gas to increase your octane level vs running meth with pump gas. You end up in the same place, only the meth cost 3/gal & you use 1 pint for every 4 races. Well, race gas does smell GREAT, but the protection is about the same.
And Julio designed the Alky Control system to run pure meth, so the pump & the hoses will hold up. Also when that green light comes on indicating the meth pump is activated, the car shreds my Hoosier 335 DRs from a 25mph roll. It doesn't do that with it turned off.
And Julio designed the Alky Control system to run pure meth, so the pump & the hoses will hold up. Also when that green light comes on indicating the meth pump is activated, the car shreds my Hoosier 335 DRs from a 25mph roll. It doesn't do that with it turned off.
#39
![Default](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Originally Posted by kp
IMO using meth is great for a pump gas street car if you are looking for max power every possible moment. low risk.
Using it instead of an intercooler is too much of a risk IMO, if it fails you are in trouble, intercoolers dont fail (A2A anyhow). high risk
Using it to make up for a too-small fuel system or injectors is a band aid and thats that. high risk
I'm not sure what non intercooled race cars are using gasoline/meth injection as opposed to running methanol or straight race gas but I havent seen any. Everyone always asks me why I dont have it on my car, its because I run good gas at the track and I dont think it will help me one tiny bit and I have no problem losing 100hp with an ultra safe pump gas tune on the the street. Generally I can keep ahead of most civics and mini vans with a 100 less hp. Now if I wanted to be a pump gas hero at the track I'm sure it would help![Winky](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_wink.gif)
Thats pretty much it and I'm not so sure why people are so passionate about it, there is no argument it works as advertised when properly installed. Like anything else that requires electricity and has moving parts it can fail and requires you to keep an eye on it and maybe have a couple safegaurds in case it doesnt work.
Using it instead of an intercooler is too much of a risk IMO, if it fails you are in trouble, intercoolers dont fail (A2A anyhow). high risk
Using it to make up for a too-small fuel system or injectors is a band aid and thats that. high risk
I'm not sure what non intercooled race cars are using gasoline/meth injection as opposed to running methanol or straight race gas but I havent seen any. Everyone always asks me why I dont have it on my car, its because I run good gas at the track and I dont think it will help me one tiny bit and I have no problem losing 100hp with an ultra safe pump gas tune on the the street. Generally I can keep ahead of most civics and mini vans with a 100 less hp. Now if I wanted to be a pump gas hero at the track I'm sure it would help
![Winky](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_wink.gif)
Thats pretty much it and I'm not so sure why people are so passionate about it, there is no argument it works as advertised when properly installed. Like anything else that requires electricity and has moving parts it can fail and requires you to keep an eye on it and maybe have a couple safegaurds in case it doesnt work.
#40
TECH Resident
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Castro Valley, CA
Posts: 832
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
![Default](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Interesting opinion on the lag between IAT sensor reading and subsequent timing reduction. I see your point; but I think the main benefit is the fact that it's automatic... I don't really trust myself to always notice an LED change when I'm trying to keep the car straight at WOT.
As stated above, if you're not adding crazy timing with a bunch of methanol you're probably going to be OK in the event of a methanol delivery failure.
Boone, did you ever try this with "normal" methanol? Where's your timing at during the above run? Curious to know more about the m3.
Rich
As stated above, if you're not adding crazy timing with a bunch of methanol you're probably going to be OK in the event of a methanol delivery failure.
I run the new m3 oxygenated meth from vp, and when I shut it off at the dyno the a/f only moved from 11.6 to 11.7. Only 1 tenth, and I run 26 gal an hour, twin 13 gph jets.
Rich