What good is the "instant" throttle response, if LS1 blowers (Vortech/ATI) "instantly" respond to low, rpm-matched boost?

I prefer "Instant FULL Boost Response" over instant throttle response, even if it takes me a whole second longer for the boost to respond to the throttle... That's just me though.

When they're all in full boost at their appropriate, effecient RPM, all modes of FI are wonderful!

One day, I'm hoping we get a BIG (not small) Twin Screw available somehow, with another hood maybe... But damn that cowl.

 

Mark Micke used to have the fastest 10.5W outlaw car to the 1/8th mile (that's all he ran in his neighborhood). He went 4.50's at 169 mph. He then parked that car to build a ProMod car. He is a blower guy.

If you look at NMRA SSO, 3 of the top 5 in points this year are blower cars, the other two are nitrous.

 

Here's the points standing.

1. Urist - turbo
2. Hines - blower
3. Vincent - nitrous (huge weight breaks are nice )
4. Lasowsky - not sure
5. Burton - not sure

How many of the above 5 guys are running 6's at over 200mph?
I don't see any of the 10.5W big dogs on that list either except
for Urist. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Hope you don't mind.

But I fixed your post.
EA

 

Also.....

Nobody runs that fast....cause it's not a "W" class. It's a true 10.5 class.
Urist has the record.... I actually was at the race, on the line when he made that pass. I was taking photos of that event. Pretty neat to watch actually.

Have a good evening,
EA

 

Oh yeah...NMRA split them into SSO and Outlaw 10.5 right?
The Outlaw 10.5 guys run W's. Still, how many 10.5W blower cars
are running 6's at 200-215mph?

 

They "sort of" split them....

Because that "w" class is NOT at every event. So I guess you can say there is a class, but not really.

There are a good number of Chevy Blower cars in the 6's at over 200 on W's.
But honestly I would have to wait till tommorow to get those names to ya.
My buddy follows the chevy's I just follow the Fords.

EA

 

I've never seen or heard of any blower cars that trap 210mph on a 10.5W.
Who knows though...maybe I'm wrong. It's happened once before.

 

I didn't know your post stated that it had to trap over 210.
I just thought you were talking about anything in the 6's @ over 200.

Turbo cars are almost always going to trap more.
They make more power. Blower cars have a little more low end grunt,
And that gives them the nice trade off advantage.

Just like watching some years back when the Turbo cars would run the Big Motor N/A cars. ET's nearly the same, but MPH's much much different.

Well, I'll see what I can dig up tommorrow.
It's time to pass out candy to the little Kids.

EA

PS: Kidding about the candy, it's time to go out with the lady, and all her naughy dressed sorority sisters, for halloween Nothing better then the "Naughty Cop, Naughty Lady Mechanic, and Naughty Gangster"

 

I was ==> <== that close to getting a Procharger D1sc when I stumbled on a new Incon TT kit.... even though it's $cost$ about double the total "package price" of the blower, I wouldn't change a thing.

Having full boost at 3,250 rpm and the ability to crank boost up to 20+ psi in the future without slipping belts adds value, and then there's the "rare/exotic" aspect of owning one.

 

Since when does the term "complete" and "one-box" mean the same thing? So, if Vortech didnt send their aftercooled kit in a box the size of a refrigerator, but in two smaller boxes it wouldn't be incomplete? Kinda flawed logic there. Either you get all the crap for one price or not....pretty simple.

One day install. It took my friend 2 days to install a Vortech aftercooled system on his 95 Mustang. 18 hours to be exact. Is that an incomplete kit then? (or should he have worked 18 hours straight to call it a one-day install?) I'm sure I could have installed my STS, fuel upgrades, and FMIC in a day....if I worked on it for 20 hours straight. Would that make it a "kit" then if I did that everything arrived in a box the size of an elephant?

Cost....it does seem that the supercharger setups are cheaper than turbos once all is said and done. Doesn't mean that the supercharger is better than the turbo because of it. You can nitpick one system over the other all day long. In the end, to each his own. It's like trying to argue which exhaust sounds best.....it's all subjective.

Just my $0.02

 

Well... I am gonna take a couple min. here while my girl paints her nails.
To answer to your message......

Well, I guess it can come in 1,2,3, heck even 7 boxes.

As long as its ALL there, and at my door at the same time.
Meaning... I place the order, it arrives, I install. I don't have to order from 2 different places, vendors, wait for parts on "back order" or what not.

I think you knew what I was saying, but wanted to argue just to argue.



Well, once again.... I think you are arguing just to do so....
I stated that TWO systems got installed in a driveway on two 2007 trucks.
They were not vortech systems,...they were procharger systems.
I left the name of the company out, for as I didn't think it would matter, because I was assuming people would see my point.

But since you now brought it up. Yes some Vortech systems take longer it install. How long does it take, well that is up to the person installing them, tools, and if there is an extra set of hands involved.

Vortech systems have the following, that the prochargers don't (and it saves time)
- oil lines to the blower
- oil return lines, that need to be tapped in the pan
- air the water intercoolers that need heat exchangers mounted
- wiring to be done to the pump for the heat exchanger
- other variations.

The systems I was talking about were Air to Air intercooled systems.
With nothing more then bolting them on, swapping injectors out for the larger units, jumping in the cabs of the trucks, and downloading the tunes.

Pretty easy Sat. job for a couple of guys,......
Nothing against any other supercharger system....they are all great. I am just stating that the systems that were installed, didn't require the stuff to be done that I listed out.



Never done and STS, don't know how long it takes.
Frankly someday maybe I will do one, and I could tell ya.

But main point.... on average supercharger systems take much much much less time to install then turbo "systems" ( and self contained blowers make it that much easier)

And I would say 99% of the people looking at this thread would agree.


Once again, I think you are missing the point. But I'll leave this one alone.

The average supercharger system box is around 18"x18"x96" And yes, it's big, it's heavy, but it's all there in one box, taped up like a bundle that anyone would be happy to see under the christmas tree.

The last turbo "system" I had any dealings with....came in about 18 boxes over the corse of 3.5 months.... because of "shipping delays", "vendor issues", and "backorders" Heck one box came with nothing more then ONE turbo flange,.....and it was a twin turbo kit. LOL, the other was "back ordered"


What do you mean "does"...... they are cheaper. Point, Period, Paragraph.

Nope, it sure doesn't....and I never said that either. Please re-read my post. I was actually in favor of the Turbo companys that are starting to move away from the "kits" and step up to the big boy world of ready to go "systems"

And was also patting the companys on the back, that are actually making it, and have made it past the first 5 years, before dropping off the face of the planet, and leaving customers stranded to find parts if something breaks on their systems.


yes, you are 100% correct....although I think the only nitpicking that has gone on...... is you nitpicking my post.


Happy Halloween,
EA

 

superchargers are easier to install, they cost less...... i dont care. im happy with my STS kit. my car is quiet until you mash the gas and then the turbo spools. vortech and prochargers are very loud sitting still. turbo for me. instant boost isnt good for a street car, just cause more damage. im on a stock clutch still and doing fine.

to each his own. im happy with my set up and its only going to get faster for me. hopefully i will get the turbo in the front in the future

 

If money were no object, turbo.

Since making more power on less money is the supercharger way, why not.

Most people don't think it's fun to pay more and get flat left in the dust by the guy who paid less. This is a real case of to each their own.

 

Although this debate will never be settled, I prefer superchargers for street setups. On chassis cars with glides yes I would go turbo and never look back.

But for a street car blowers are my cup of tea. Turbo cars make more average hp and tq but they can never seem to e.t. where they should be with their higher power numbers. If you don't believe it or like it just check the sigs of most turbo cars in this section and you'll see my point.

FWIW, I am building a turbo setup for my 67 chevy so flamers flame on.

Nate

 

The top 6 cars on the boosted list E.T. very well and are all turbo cars!

 

Micke ran 212 at the first COTT race in Tulsa this year in the Black Procharged '67 Camaro on 3069W's.

I think I stirred up a hornet's nest of sorts. I'm sorry if I come off as ******* of the month, but I was trying to make a point that blower systems are generally a better install experience and get you out on the street quicker with generally less headaches.

As the saying goes, "There's an *** for every seat".

Turbo, blower, nitrous, moth *****...pick your poison...if we all had the same setup it would be pretty boring out there.

 

Then why'd you get a turbo? Small turbo'd STS's get more "instant boost" than the LS1 centrifugal superchargers, whose boost is rpm-matched...

Anyhow, I wouldn't mind having a BIG ATI with really high boost, but I love flooring my car on the street at ~2500 RPM on the highway to pass a car... Very quickly, if I may add.

 

I agree completely with your post above.

My point was only that the baddest cars in the world right now...10.5W
and drag radial...are turbo cars.

 

Maybe 10.5W, but not Drag Radial. Kolivas only won the championship because Chad Doyle (a blower guy) had some engine troubles late in the year (lifters and cams), and the turbo guys got an additional 75# weight break halfway through the year. 4 of the top 5 in BFG Drag Radial are blower cars, and 5 of the top 7. The ET. record is held by Doyle too.