Exhaust temps STS
Another Engineer! Praise God!
Another Engineer!
Maybe YOU can speak to some of these 19 YO "I know everything because I've been posting every day for the past 18 months just to hear myself speak / Don't confuse me with the facts, I've already made up my mind" cyber racers and break thru their preconceived notions and errors in logic.
Than again, maybe not, they are afterall 19 YO males...
Anyway, "Nigel" - I have 2 custom license plates on my Michigan vehicles I thought you'd enjoy:
GOES2XI - 96 Formula
1LOUDER - 75 Lemans
MIKE
Another Engineer!
Maybe YOU can speak to some of these 19 YO "I know everything because I've been posting every day for the past 18 months just to hear myself speak / Don't confuse me with the facts, I've already made up my mind" cyber racers and break thru their preconceived notions and errors in logic.
Than again, maybe not, they are afterall 19 YO males...
Anyway, "Nigel" - I have 2 custom license plates on my Michigan vehicles I thought you'd enjoy:
GOES2XI - 96 Formula
1LOUDER - 75 Lemans
MIKE
Originally Posted by NigelTufnel
Simple Thermodynamics. PV=nRT.
V is the volume the gas occupies. In an exhaust system, that volume is defined by the exhaust pipes. Thus, in an exhaust system, V is constant.
Without getting into detail, n (# of moles of the gas) may be considered constant.
R is the ideal or universal gas constant (i.e., another constant).
Thus, the only variables are P and T. As temperature (T) of the exhaust gas increases (or decreases), the pressure (P) exerted by the gas also increases (or decreases). The higher pressure gas results in a higher gas velocity. This higher pressure (and higher velocity) results in shorter spool time relative to colder exhaust temperatures.
V is the volume the gas occupies. In an exhaust system, that volume is defined by the exhaust pipes. Thus, in an exhaust system, V is constant.
Without getting into detail, n (# of moles of the gas) may be considered constant.
R is the ideal or universal gas constant (i.e., another constant).
Thus, the only variables are P and T. As temperature (T) of the exhaust gas increases (or decreases), the pressure (P) exerted by the gas also increases (or decreases). The higher pressure gas results in a higher gas velocity. This higher pressure (and higher velocity) results in shorter spool time relative to colder exhaust temperatures.
Not Spinal Tap, "The New Originals"
Originally Posted by Zombie
Spinal Tap?
Yes! Spinal Tap.
"Nigel Tufnel" (a.k.a. - Christopher Guest) was / is the lead guitarist. I guess he likes to go fast too...
"This one goes to Eleven; that's one louder isn't it?"
MLE
Originally Posted by great421
Or maybe "The Lovely Lads", quite possibly "The Thamesmen" though.
Yes! Spinal Tap.
"Nigel Tufnel" (a.k.a. - Christopher Guest) was / is the lead guitarist. I guess he likes to go fast too...
"This one goes to Eleven; that's one louder isn't it?"
MLE
Yes! Spinal Tap.
"Nigel Tufnel" (a.k.a. - Christopher Guest) was / is the lead guitarist. I guess he likes to go fast too...
"This one goes to Eleven; that's one louder isn't it?"
MLE
I put the STS kit on my C5 (6spd) and it went "one louder" too, and runs in the "elevens". Hoping to get into the 10s next year. I just installed an x-pipe (cat-less) that was HEAVILY wrapped to try and minimize heat loss before the turbos. Also getting a new clutch (stocker couldn't handle the abuse at the track) and some decent rubber this winter.
New Clutch (SPEC 3+)
Originally Posted by NigelTufnel
LOL! Another Spinal Tap fan I presume???
Originally Posted by NigelTufnel
I put the STS kit on my C5 (6spd) and it went "one louder" too, and runs in the "elevens". Hoping to get into the 10s next year. I just installed an x-pipe (cat-less) that was HEAVILY wrapped to try and minimize heat loss before the turbos. Also getting a new clutch (stocker couldn't handle the abuse at the track) and some decent rubber this winter.
10s!?!
I wanna be YOU when I grow up! My Formula went 14.41 w/o the STS, I haven't had it to the strip since the install, but it sure is alot quicker!
My brother's 04 GTO no longer makes me look silly! His is 100% bone stock (not even a K&N), and he runs 13.8s all day long. I'm just guessing, but I'd venture mine runs 12.9s now...
Right now, however, with the rear end out, it doesn't go at all!
MIKE
Last edited by great421; Dec 21, 2006 at 10:22 AM. Reason: spelling
Originally Posted by NigelTufnel
Simple Thermodynamics. PV=nRT.
V is the volume the gas occupies. In an exhaust system, that volume is defined by the exhaust pipes. Thus, in an exhaust system, V is constant.
Without getting into detail, n (# of moles of the gas) may be considered constant.
R is the ideal or universal gas constant (i.e., another constant).
Thus, the only variables are P and T. As temperature (T) of the exhaust gas increases (or decreases), the pressure (P) exerted by the gas also increases (or decreases). The higher pressure gas results in a higher gas velocity. This higher pressure (and higher velocity) results in shorter spool time relative to colder exhaust temperatures.
V is the volume the gas occupies. In an exhaust system, that volume is defined by the exhaust pipes. Thus, in an exhaust system, V is constant.
Without getting into detail, n (# of moles of the gas) may be considered constant.
R is the ideal or universal gas constant (i.e., another constant).
Thus, the only variables are P and T. As temperature (T) of the exhaust gas increases (or decreases), the pressure (P) exerted by the gas also increases (or decreases). The higher pressure gas results in a higher gas velocity. This higher pressure (and higher velocity) results in shorter spool time relative to colder exhaust temperatures.
What I would like to see are the before and after hp/tq figures. My system will get wrapped next year, for certain.
BTW, you sure does talk fancy.
Originally Posted by great421
Praise God!
Another Engineer!
Maybe YOU can speak to some of these 19 YO "I know everything because I've been posting every day for the past 18 months just to hear myself speak / Don't confuse me with the facts, I've already made up my mind" cyber racers and break thru their preconceived notions and errors in logic.
Than again, maybe not, they are afterall 19 YO males...
MIKE
Another Engineer!
Maybe YOU can speak to some of these 19 YO "I know everything because I've been posting every day for the past 18 months just to hear myself speak / Don't confuse me with the facts, I've already made up my mind" cyber racers and break thru their preconceived notions and errors in logic.
Than again, maybe not, they are afterall 19 YO males...
MIKE
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Originally Posted by great421
My clutch of choice is the SPEC 3+ (get the plus version - KEVLAR is your friend!)
My rear mount turbo times are in my sig.
One vote NO on SPEC 3+
Originally Posted by Zombie
Avoid spec like the plague, they make junk clutches. I was going through a clutch every 1000 miles. After the 4th spec that was in their died I gave up. Instead of paying $1500 for a clutch that "might work" I swapped to a th400.
I'm sorry you had several problems with your SPEC clutches. Did you ever find an acceptable clutch manufacturer? (BTW - I still love mine; I'd rather find a good clutch than go automatic!)
MIKE
Last edited by great421; Dec 21, 2006 at 11:56 AM. Reason: error
19 YO males
Originally Posted by koolaid_kid
I suspect it may not work, I usually try once then shrug my shoulders.
I actually remember being like that, but I don't look back with pride, rather shame and disgust that I could be that kind of (know-it-all) kid. But, that was 21 years ago; I've learned a bit more information (and humility!) in the last 7700 days!
MIKE
Well, I also remember that the older I got (after turning 25) the smarter my dad got. Guess it's all part of the growing up process. 
But back on topic, has anyone done a comparison of the 1/8" thick wrap versus the more common 1/16" wrap?
Clearly, the 1/8" will hold in more heat, but what is the percentage gain of it versus the 1/16"? I will probably go 1/8" since the cost differential is slight, but it would be nice to know that it is the correct decision and can be justified with data.
Also, has anyone used the HT silicone coating? Were you pleased with the results and how many cans did it take to go from the y-pipe to the turbo?
But back on topic, has anyone done a comparison of the 1/8" thick wrap versus the more common 1/16" wrap?
Clearly, the 1/8" will hold in more heat, but what is the percentage gain of it versus the 1/16"? I will probably go 1/8" since the cost differential is slight, but it would be nice to know that it is the correct decision and can be justified with data.
Also, has anyone used the HT silicone coating? Were you pleased with the results and how many cans did it take to go from the y-pipe to the turbo?
Will increasing the exhaust temps. have a dramatic effect on intake temperatures? or would it be negligible? I see how insulating the exhaust pipes will retain heat and increase exhaust pressure, which will also result in heating up the exhaust turbine. just curious to see what the effects would be on the intake side.
It would have no effect at all. The two sections are completely separated. What it will do is increase the efficiency of the turbo, resulting in a power increase. Which is probably why you went with FI anyhow. 
What it will not do is make the butt turbo as efficient as a front mount. Some heat loss must occur, just because of the distance the exhaust must travel to reach the turbo.
What it will not do is make the butt turbo as efficient as a front mount. Some heat loss must occur, just because of the distance the exhaust must travel to reach the turbo.
Google on "exhaust wrap" and "exhaust wrap kit". A kit includes the tie wraps (required) and the HT silicone spray (is this required?).
Also, eBay carries it too.
Most sites seem to think that 100' of 2" wrap is enough. Can someone who has done this chime in?
I am going with the thicker wrap, just because.
Also, eBay carries it too.
Most sites seem to think that 100' of 2" wrap is enough. Can someone who has done this chime in?
I am going with the thicker wrap, just because.
Originally Posted by great421
Rob (I presume, hence the "Zombie" name) -
I'm sorry you had several problems with your SPEC clutches. Did you ever find an acceptable clutch manufacturer? (BTW - I still love mine; I'd rather find a good clutch than go automatic!)
MIKE
I'm sorry you had several problems with your SPEC clutches. Did you ever find an acceptable clutch manufacturer? (BTW - I still love mine; I'd rather find a good clutch than go automatic!)
MIKE
I've heard that mcleod is decent and seen more people have success with them vs other brands, but i've still seen several posing about problems with them. I feared the automatic at first, now people fear my auto
For a turbo f-body it doesn't get much more fun than a RMVB th400 with transbrake. I was a die hard 6spd fan until the conversion, this setup OWNS the old 6spd setup for fun, especially on a highway roll.
As for insulating the exhaust, the better you insulate the better the turbo will spool. I tried a .96 a/r housing on my setup but it doesn't work as well as the .81 a/r I had on there so i'm swapping back. I'm going to try and insulate as much of the over the axle pipe as I can when the turbo comes off again. My y-pipe is insulated with 1/2" ceramic fiber.
Originally Posted by koolaid_kid
It would have no effect at all. The two sections are completely separated. What it will do is increase the efficiency of the turbo, resulting in a power increase. Which is probably why you went with FI anyhow.
What it will not do is make the butt turbo as efficient as a front mount. Some heat loss must occur, just because of the distance the exhaust must travel to reach the turbo.
What it will not do is make the butt turbo as efficient as a front mount. Some heat loss must occur, just because of the distance the exhaust must travel to reach the turbo.
O.K., let me restate. You will probably see more effect from the ambient temperature change than the change of the exhaust gas temperature. Think about front mount turbos, do you think that the fact that they have even hotter exhaust gases affects the temp of the intake air? If that were true, butt turbos would be preferred.
So I would restate as "the effect would be negligible, at best, and the tiny increase, (if any) would be far outweighed by the increased efficiency.
Think of it this way: the intake impeller can be thought of as a large fan. Fans cool. If you can provide data that it has an effect, O.K. Otherwise, please keep sarcasm in PMs and do not cloud technical discussions with it. No one appreciates it, and it shows your appreciation of this forum.
So I would restate as "the effect would be negligible, at best, and the tiny increase, (if any) would be far outweighed by the increased efficiency.
Think of it this way: the intake impeller can be thought of as a large fan. Fans cool. If you can provide data that it has an effect, O.K. Otherwise, please keep sarcasm in PMs and do not cloud technical discussions with it. No one appreciates it, and it shows your appreciation of this forum.
Originally Posted by koolaid_kid
O.K., let me restate. You will probably see more effect from the ambient temperature change than the change of the exhaust gas temperature. Think about front mount turbos, do you think that the fact that they have even hotter exhaust gases affects the temp of the intake air? If that were true, butt turbos would be preferred.
So I would restate as "the effect would be negligible, at best, and the tiny increase, (if any) would be far outweighed by the increased efficiency.
Think of it this way: the intake impeller can be thought of as a large fan. Fans cool. If you can provide data that it has an effect, O.K. Otherwise, please keep sarcasm in PMs and do not cloud technical discussions with it. No one appreciates it, and it shows your appreciation of this forum.
So I would restate as "the effect would be negligible, at best, and the tiny increase, (if any) would be far outweighed by the increased efficiency.
Think of it this way: the intake impeller can be thought of as a large fan. Fans cool. If you can provide data that it has an effect, O.K. Otherwise, please keep sarcasm in PMs and do not cloud technical discussions with it. No one appreciates it, and it shows your appreciation of this forum.