APS C5 extreme fuel system-1000 RWHP fuel supply for 03/04 model C5
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Very nice system....well thought out.
I'd have your engineers spec a max pressure for 1000rwhp. If someone tries to boost reference Mototron 60's with a base pressure of say 70psi and push 20psi of boost....the 342's will drop off bigtime in flow at 90psi.....actually they drop pretty hard starting around 70psi.....don't ask me how I know
I'd have your engineers spec a max pressure for 1000rwhp. If someone tries to boost reference Mototron 60's with a base pressure of say 70psi and push 20psi of boost....the 342's will drop off bigtime in flow at 90psi.....actually they drop pretty hard starting around 70psi.....don't ask me how I know
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Originally Posted by onfire
Very nice system....well thought out.
I'd have your engineers spec a max pressure for 1000rwhp. If someone tries to boost reference Mototron 60's with a base pressure of say 70psi and push 20psi of boost....the 342's will drop off bigtime in flow at 90psi.....actually they drop pretty hard starting around 70psi.....don't ask me how I know
I'd have your engineers spec a max pressure for 1000rwhp. If someone tries to boost reference Mototron 60's with a base pressure of say 70psi and push 20psi of boost....the 342's will drop off bigtime in flow at 90psi.....actually they drop pretty hard starting around 70psi.....don't ask me how I know
Peter
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Originally Posted by onfire
Typical 342 on a bench:
50psi 390lb/hr 8.5amps
70psi 335lb/hr 10.9amps
100psi 200lb/hr 15.4amps
50psi 390lb/hr 8.5amps
70psi 335lb/hr 10.9amps
100psi 200lb/hr 15.4amps
Thanks,
Peter
#25
Originally Posted by peter@aps
Dave, What's the problem my friend?
I have, seen a number of big twin turbo engines with twin Walbros fuel pumps make that power.
Peter
I have, seen a number of big twin turbo engines with twin Walbros fuel pumps make that power.
Peter
This includes the C6 and late C5 FSS fuel systems, you just didn't figure out what it was when you took it apart.
Second, show us some concrete test results, preferably independent for a change and not marketing hype. If you search within this forum you will find a number of people unable to make 1000rwhp with various twin 255s. And the rare few that actually have made it have issues with system degradation with heat. The couple that I know of run a healthy dose of meth to reduce the fuel system burden.
Dave
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Originally Posted by 99Fbody99
The fact that EVERY OEM vehicle manufacturers their fuel system to contain a fuel filter between the pump exit and injector. PERIOD! This includes the C6 and late C5 FSS fuel systems, you just didn't figure out what it was when you took it apart.
Originally Posted by 99Fbody99
If you search within this forum you will find a number of people unable to make 1000rwhp with various twin 255s. And the rare few that actually have made it have issues with system degradation with heat. The couple that I know of run a healthy dose of meth to reduce the fuel system burden.
Dave
Dave
Peter
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An independant dual fuel line and FPR per pump will step up the efficiency. I'm using twin Bosch 044 pumps but they feed into a Magnafuel y merge....I've never measured it but I would guess the merge drops the second pump down 20-30 %.
Originally Posted by peter@aps
Dave, I just had a close look at the C6 fuel unit and there is indeed a small filter (non serviable type imo) in the stock C6 fuel sender assembly. I had a good talk to our fuel system engineer and he has no problem with removing that non servicable fillter (as in his opinion, it's highly unlikely that anyone is ever going to remove the fuel tank to replace that filter) as we have twin filters on the walbro 342 fuel pumps.That said, it would be a relatively simple procedure to install a large after market type fuel filter/filters to the fuel C5/C6 system.
Dave, A single 342 Walbro fuel pump will support 500 rwhp, I have run many of these 342 Walbro fuel pumps at that power so it make logical sense that 2 of the exact fuel pumps (each with their own fuel line and fuel reg) will support around 1000 rwhp imho on a twin turbo LSX engine. If you don't agree with that then that's cool, we are all entitled to our own opinion.
Peter
Dave, A single 342 Walbro fuel pump will support 500 rwhp, I have run many of these 342 Walbro fuel pumps at that power so it make logical sense that 2 of the exact fuel pumps (each with their own fuel line and fuel reg) will support around 1000 rwhp imho on a twin turbo LSX engine. If you don't agree with that then that's cool, we are all entitled to our own opinion.
Peter
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Peter
You still haven't answered the question as to why no fuel filters with your system. Socks before the pumps are BS ..are we all supposed to hope that we don't clog an injector and lose an engine?
You haven't responded to this over at the other forum either.
You still haven't answered the question as to why no fuel filters with your system. Socks before the pumps are BS ..are we all supposed to hope that we don't clog an injector and lose an engine?
You haven't responded to this over at the other forum either.
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Originally Posted by rjw
Peter
You still haven't answered the question as to why no fuel filters with your system.
You still haven't answered the question as to why no fuel filters with your system.
Originally Posted by rjw
Socks before the pumps are BS
Originally Posted by rjw
..are we all supposed to hope that we don't clog an injector and lose an engine?
Peter
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Originally Posted by black98ws6ta
My car made 920 rwhp on a mustang dyno with twin 225's high pressure with a 42 base pressure, boost referenced. I have noticed that with a base of 60 that they fall off hard and even start bypassing in the tank when boost referenced.
Peter
#32
Originally Posted by black98ws6ta
My car made 920 rwhp on a mustang dyno with twin 225's high pressure with a 42 base pressure, boost referenced. I have noticed that with a base of 60 that they fall off hard and even start bypassing in the tank when boost referenced.
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Originally Posted by peter@aps
I'd guess that would be around 1000 rwhp on a dyno jet...........what was your fuel pressure at that power level? What model fuel pump and fuel supply line size were you using
Peter
Peter
Anthony can post up the actual test psi, but looking at the pump flow I posted above, I'd guess his max pump pressure boost referenced was 65psi or less.
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Originally Posted by black98ws6ta
My car made 920 rwhp on a mustang dyno with twin 225's high pressure with a 42 base pressure, boost referenced. I have noticed that with a base of 60 that they fall off hard and even start bypassing in the tank when boost referenced.
Twin 342 Walbro fuel pumps have sufficient fuel flow for around 1200 HP at 11.1 air fuel ratio as long as the fuel supply line/lines are large enough, APS utilizes twin - 6 teflon lined braided stainless steel fuel lines in our extreme fuel systems.
I estimate the 1200 HP flywheel would be around 1000 rwhp.
Peter
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Originally Posted by peter@aps
Dave, I just had a close look at the C6 fuel unit and there is indeed a small filter (non serviable type imo) in the stock C6 fuel sender assembly. I had a good talk to our fuel system engineer and he has no problem with removing that non servicable fillter (as in his opinion, it's highly unlikely that anyone is ever going to remove the fuel tank to replace that filter) as we have twin filters on the walbro 342 fuel pumps.That said, it would be a relatively simple procedure to install a large after market type fuel filter/filters to the fuel C5/C6 system.
Why? Are you saying that the filters before the pump are unnecessary?
I've never seen a clogged injector due to foreign material coming through the fuel system (EVER and we service plenty of fuel injectors), though if guys are concerned about this issue they can easily fit high quality in line fuel filters at any time.
Peter
Why? Are you saying that the filters before the pump are unnecessary?
I've never seen a clogged injector due to foreign material coming through the fuel system (EVER and we service plenty of fuel injectors), though if guys are concerned about this issue they can easily fit high quality in line fuel filters at any time.
Peter
Got it...
Did that one go over big on the vette forum?
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Originally Posted by onfire
Anthony can post up the actual test psi, but looking at the pump flow I posted above, I'd guess his max pump pressure boost referenced was 65psi or less.
The current one I tested has (2) walbro 342's with #6 braided lines in the tank to a y block(block is (2)#6's to (1) #8, then to a #8 single feed. It splits back into 2 near the rails and uses the regulator at the front of the rails. At 67 or so psi at the rails the fuel pumps were opening up there integrated " pop-off " or "pressure relief". I tested this with the pumps sitting in one gallon of fuel and the rest of the fuel system beside me. There arent any huge restrictions or anything in the system eventhough I'm sure the pressure at the pumps is higher then at the rails.
My personal goal was to build a fuel system for a street car that makes right at 1000rwhp. I wanted to see if THAT fuel system was up to task with a base of 58 and rising 1:1 to about 78 psi total. I wanted to run a smaller injector 60/75's as long as I could but it would take a really high pressure pump and big lines and rails to make it work. The conclusions from my redneck test is that the pumps are STRUGGLING AND BYPASSING FUEL at that pressure at the rails. So I will be running 96 lbers with a 42 base and rising 1:1 to keep the flow up with THIS system.
P.S. there was nothing scientific about the above
Originally Posted by peter@aps
I'd guess that would be around 1000 rwhp on a dyno jet...........what was your fuel pressure at that power level? What model fuel pump and fuel supply line size were you using
Peter
Peter
Originally Posted by Exotic Performance Plus
Anthony, the rubber stuck on our ceiling above the dyno from your slicks is finally coming down... lol Bob
Last edited by black98ws6ta; 07-31-2007 at 04:24 PM.
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Originally Posted by peter@aps
Here's the Walbro 342 fuel pump performance data prepared by engineering department. As you can clearly see, the 342 fuel pump has sufficient fuel flow for around 600 Hp Flywheel at 11.1 air fuel ratio.
Twin 342 Walbro fuel pumps have sufficient fuel flow for around 1200 HP at 11.1 air fuel ratio as long as the fuel supply line/lines are large enough, APS utilizes twin - 6 teflon lined braided stainless steel fuel lines in our extreme fuel systems.
I estimate the 1200 HP flywheel would be around 1000 rwhp.
Peter
Twin 342 Walbro fuel pumps have sufficient fuel flow for around 1200 HP at 11.1 air fuel ratio as long as the fuel supply line/lines are large enough, APS utilizes twin - 6 teflon lined braided stainless steel fuel lines in our extreme fuel systems.
I estimate the 1200 HP flywheel would be around 1000 rwhp.
Peter
Peter, If you compare your graph to my chart they are almost identical. Mine was based on 13.2 V at the pump (which is something that needs to be verified for the serious user) and a 0.72 Fluid SpGr...or 6lbs per gallon.
At 50 psi I show 390lb/hr you show 384lb/hr
At 70psi I show 335lb/hr you show 330lb/hr
At 100psi I show 200lb/hr you show 210lb/hr
Looks like you've built a nice system.
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Originally Posted by onfire
Peter, If you compare your graph to my chart they are almost identical. Mine was based on 13.2 V at the pump (which is something that needs to be verified for the serious user) and a 0.72 Fluid SpGr...or 6lbs per gallon.
At 50 psi I show 390lb/hr you show 384lb/hr
At 70psi I show 335lb/hr you show 330lb/hr
At 100psi I show 200lb/hr you show 210lb/hr
Looks like you've built a nice system.
At 50 psi I show 390lb/hr you show 384lb/hr
At 70psi I show 335lb/hr you show 330lb/hr
At 100psi I show 200lb/hr you show 210lb/hr
Looks like you've built a nice system.
Peter