350 whp from sts!?! thats all!?!?
09-10-2007, 02:53 PM
#101
TECH Resident
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: palmharbor/Clearwater,FL
Posts: 979
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by darkhorizon
I dont know why everyone here just makes up stuff, the car HAS BEEN on a dyno, with a wideband, for many hours, and I know how to read a narrowband for ballpark air/fuel.
There is nothing mechanicaly "skimped" on, the injectors are FINE, the fuel pump is FINE, its all confirmed by scanning on and off the dyno, with fuel pressure gauge right on the fuel rail. PLEASE quit saying that "skimping" on injectors is the problem, because it is OBVIOUSLY not. The injector duty cycle, and injector pulse widths are fine, with no drops in fuel pressure. The wideband on the dyno showed mid 11's for afr, and so does the narrowband now, which is the same as it did on the dyno.
THERE IS FUEL GOING TO THE MOTOR!!!! please please stop saying there isnt, the tune is FINE. The only reason I am actually posting here is to find out what sort of problem you could have motor wise, because I know nothing about LS1's motor wise. What could possibly be restricting all airflow at 4000rpms. I have never seen anything like this, if I looked at this problem from the outside, I would say that there is a large restriction in the intake, in the form of a restrictor plate on a carburetor type thing.
The car "boosts" fine, it comes in late, but it does make pressure and holds it fairly well, but I think that there is SOMETHING that the motor is doing that is screwing it up above 4000rpms, because I have heard the wastegate close above 4k rpms before..
The hot side is fine, I dont know who is trying to say we have a leak there, because exhaust leaks are VERY obvious for those that actually work on cars...
The compressor side is fully leak free now.
There is nothing mechanicaly "skimped" on, the injectors are FINE, the fuel pump is FINE, its all confirmed by scanning on and off the dyno, with fuel pressure gauge right on the fuel rail. PLEASE quit saying that "skimping" on injectors is the problem, because it is OBVIOUSLY not. The injector duty cycle, and injector pulse widths are fine, with no drops in fuel pressure. The wideband on the dyno showed mid 11's for afr, and so does the narrowband now, which is the same as it did on the dyno.
THERE IS FUEL GOING TO THE MOTOR!!!! please please stop saying there isnt, the tune is FINE. The only reason I am actually posting here is to find out what sort of problem you could have motor wise, because I know nothing about LS1's motor wise. What could possibly be restricting all airflow at 4000rpms. I have never seen anything like this, if I looked at this problem from the outside, I would say that there is a large restriction in the intake, in the form of a restrictor plate on a carburetor type thing.
The car "boosts" fine, it comes in late, but it does make pressure and holds it fairly well, but I think that there is SOMETHING that the motor is doing that is screwing it up above 4000rpms, because I have heard the wastegate close above 4k rpms before..
The hot side is fine, I dont know who is trying to say we have a leak there, because exhaust leaks are VERY obvious for those that actually work on cars...
The compressor side is fully leak free now.
I have no idea how your not needing 42lbers and a new fuel pump...IF you dont need them when your pump craps out because it WILL happen i hope you dont go lean and blow your engine...I maxed out my 42lbers on a 125 shot on a stock motor cam only and my stock fuel pump was going out so i threw a racetronix in it...YOU my sir are doing **** back asswards.
09-10-2007, 03:20 PM
#102
You should def. have a set of 42#'s... They run out around 450-500 hp..
So with your 3xlb's your probably running out of fuel around 4000rpms making around 350-380hp....
It makes sense.....
I hope your not using a narrow band a/f gauge on your turbo setup...
That would be VERY idiotic...
Also What are your IAT's @ WOT?
So with your 3xlb's your probably running out of fuel around 4000rpms making around 350-380hp....
It makes sense.....
I hope your not using a narrow band a/f gauge on your turbo setup...
That would be VERY idiotic...
Also What are your IAT's @ WOT?
09-10-2007, 04:04 PM
#103
On The Tree
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 198
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think iat's are 160 ish.
I know the injectors are not maxing out, and I know the pump is keeping up, please dont harass me about that anymore.
I only looked at the narrowband to make sure nothing changed once we left the dyno, and it hasnt.
Blake told me many many people got by with stock injectors on these setups.
I know the injectors are not maxing out, and I know the pump is keeping up, please dont harass me about that anymore.
I only looked at the narrowband to make sure nothing changed once we left the dyno, and it hasnt.
Blake told me many many people got by with stock injectors on these setups.
09-10-2007, 07:28 PM
#104
On The Tree
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 198
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Excel File http://lknopf.servehttp.com/yellow%20ta.csv (Right Click, Save File As)
EFILive File http://lknopf.servehttp.com/yellowta.zip (Right Click, Save File As)
Scans taken last night, only saw 2 degrees of knock, I guess I made up the 5 degrees I thought I saw.
Interesting thing I noticed, the right side seems to be alot richer than the left side...
EFILive File http://lknopf.servehttp.com/yellowta.zip (Right Click, Save File As)
Scans taken last night, only saw 2 degrees of knock, I guess I made up the 5 degrees I thought I saw.
Interesting thing I noticed, the right side seems to be alot richer than the left side...
09-10-2007, 07:32 PM
#105
darkhorizon, what is the timing doing during a pull. Log it.
Is it seeing knock retard at 5psi?
Are you seeing the commanded timing in the High octane timing table or is it dropping to the low octane timing table?
Is the IAT vs Timing table pulling timing due to EGTs that are too high?
Is the wastegate opening after reaching full boost and then staying open?
Is it missfiring?
What vavlesprings are you using, are the valves floating?
Does it have any exhaust leaks?
Is it seeing knock retard at 5psi?
Are you seeing the commanded timing in the High octane timing table or is it dropping to the low octane timing table?
Is the IAT vs Timing table pulling timing due to EGTs that are too high?
Is the wastegate opening after reaching full boost and then staying open?
Is it missfiring?
What vavlesprings are you using, are the valves floating?
Does it have any exhaust leaks?
09-10-2007, 08:20 PM
#106
On The Tree
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 178
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
took my turbo off tonight, taking it to a turbo shop to get my new housing. wile im there im going to have them look at my turbo just to make sure nothing is wrong with it. as far as all this other stuff goes im taking my car to a guy this week to see if he can find the problem, anyway if you guys could possibly give me a things to check list that would b great! that way i could at least give him an idea were to start. thanks!
09-10-2007, 08:20 PM
#107
On The Tree
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 198
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
no exhaust leaks, no obvious missfires, stock valve springs (doubt they are floating at 4k rpms) IAT table seems to be ok... no idea what timing table it is using, asuming good fuel. He thinks the car is too slow, so he just leaves the boost at 7psi.
09-10-2007, 08:52 PM
#108
On The Tree
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 178
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
car is way to slow!!! im pretty sure i shouldnt be runnin 12*timing under full boost! i think the tune is shitty, something in the motor is broke... and i know 160 iat's cant be the best thing for power....
09-10-2007, 08:55 PM
#109
Originally Posted by mycar2fast
car is way to slow!!! im pretty sure i shouldnt be runnin 12*timing under full boost! i think the tune is shitty, something in the motor is broke... and i know 160 iat's cant be the best thing for power....
09-10-2007, 09:21 PM
#110
160 IAT's, and that would be my guess on why your not making much power... Your computer is probably pulling 8-10 degrees of timing out of your motor, inturn if your running 16* total timing, that means your running a nice 6*.... NOT GOING TO WORK..
You are going ot have to either get Meth or an Intercooler... IT IS THE ONLY OPTION for getting your IAT's down, where computer isnt going ot PULL A **** LOAD OF TIMING OUT!
You are going ot have to either get Meth or an Intercooler... IT IS THE ONLY OPTION for getting your IAT's down, where computer isnt going ot PULL A **** LOAD OF TIMING OUT!
09-10-2007, 10:29 PM
#111
TECH Enthusiast
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Palm Beach, FL
Posts: 645
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The high IAT's have been mentioned so many times in this thread it's ridiculous. That is costing an insane amount of power. Also, for your tuner to not know what timing table the pcm is referencing is scary.
What kind of IAT's are you seeing at 5 psi? Hell, turn it down to 3 psi, and see if the IAT's can get down under 120 degrees at least. Once you reach that point, see how the car is running.
darkhorizon, you want everyone to stop mentioning the fuel, but it is 100% lacking. Once you figure out why the car isn't running right, it will be making the right power for the setup. And, ince that happens, the injectors will be maxed, and the fuel pump will be on borrowed time. We understand you aren't seeing any problems now, but that is because you are running at a much lower HP. Take the advice, and don't be too proud to listen to people that have been there before.
What kind of IAT's are you seeing at 5 psi? Hell, turn it down to 3 psi, and see if the IAT's can get down under 120 degrees at least. Once you reach that point, see how the car is running.
darkhorizon, you want everyone to stop mentioning the fuel, but it is 100% lacking. Once you figure out why the car isn't running right, it will be making the right power for the setup. And, ince that happens, the injectors will be maxed, and the fuel pump will be on borrowed time. We understand you aren't seeing any problems now, but that is because you are running at a much lower HP. Take the advice, and don't be too proud to listen to people that have been there before.
09-10-2007, 11:10 PM
#112
On The Tree
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 198
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
how can you say fuel is lacking looking at that scan? If I was tuning this car, I would be taking fuel out untill it ran better....
NYSS, the injectors are at 80-90% duty, with plenty of fuel pressure............ Fuel is doing just fine if the injectors maxed out ever, I would know, if the injectors ever leaned the car out, I would know. I am asuming you have no idea how to even read a scan, so why are you posting this crap?
I am highly doubting that 15 degree rises in intake temps are robbing upwards of 140HP from this car, so you guys are going to have to try a bit better to come up with an answer here.
did you even look at the scan... I mean comeon.....
NYSS, the injectors are at 80-90% duty, with plenty of fuel pressure............ Fuel is doing just fine if the injectors maxed out ever, I would know, if the injectors ever leaned the car out, I would know. I am asuming you have no idea how to even read a scan, so why are you posting this crap?
I am highly doubting that 15 degree rises in intake temps are robbing upwards of 140HP from this car, so you guys are going to have to try a bit better to come up with an answer here.
160 IAT's, and that would be my guess on why your not making much power... Your computer is probably pulling 8-10 degrees of timing out of your motor, inturn if your running 16* total timing, that means your running a nice 6*.... NOT GOING TO WORK..
09-11-2007, 01:15 AM
#113
timing is falling off as the intake temps are rising, it's visible in the log you posted. It's also knocking quite a bit causing even more timing to be pulled. Do you guys live in a really hot climate? Your cruise IATs look similar to the stuff I see here in summer.
The tune needs to be fixed. A non intercooled car is very hard to get to run correctly with high compression and low octane. A 5lb STS kit here in Vegas will knock on 10 degrees of timing in summer on a stock engine.
The tune needs to be fixed. A non intercooled car is very hard to get to run correctly with high compression and low octane. A 5lb STS kit here in Vegas will knock on 10 degrees of timing in summer on a stock engine.
09-11-2007, 11:03 AM
#115
On The Tree
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 198
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Honestly 2 degrees of knock is the least of my concerns right now, I know for a fact that 2 degrees of timing, with 2 degrees knock out of N/A programmed knock sensors, i am not worried about anything. Dropping down to 5-6 psi would easily fix this problem, and also a 180stat.
Noone has even bothered to try to solve the problem at hand here, I just dont understand why people keep beating a dead horse such as timing and intake temps, we know they are within a level of normality compared to other people on the fourm making more than 290HP at 6000rpms.
Noone has even bothered to try to solve the problem at hand here, I just dont understand why people keep beating a dead horse such as timing and intake temps, we know they are within a level of normality compared to other people on the fourm making more than 290HP at 6000rpms.
09-11-2007, 11:08 AM
#116
On The Tree
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 198
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
if in vegas (really dry climate) a 5psi car with 10 degrees of timing knocks, then why would we be worried about a 7psi car with 16 degrees of timing knocking 2 degrees in hot humid weather?
09-11-2007, 11:16 AM
#117
TECH Resident
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: palmharbor/Clearwater,FL
Posts: 979
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by 2000TurboVert
You should def. have a set of 42#'s... They run out around 450-500 hp..
So with your 3xlb's your probably running out of fuel around 4000rpms making around 350-380hp....
It makes sense.....
I hope your not using a narrow band a/f gauge on your turbo setup...
That would be VERY idiotic...
Also What are your IAT's @ WOT?
So with your 3xlb's your probably running out of fuel around 4000rpms making around 350-380hp....
It makes sense.....
I hope your not using a narrow band a/f gauge on your turbo setup...
That would be VERY idiotic...
Also What are your IAT's @ WOT?
I made 525rwhp without maxing my 42lbers.
09-11-2007, 11:49 AM
#118
Originally Posted by darkhorizon
if in vegas (really dry climate) a 5psi car with 10 degrees of timing knocks, then why would we be worried about a 7psi car with 16 degrees of timing knocking 2 degrees in hot humid weather?
LS1: Knock knock..
darkhorizon: Who's there?
LS1: Knock Knock
darkhorizon: Is someone knocking?
LS1: Knock Knock BOOM biotch! Didn't you hear me Knocking?
Good luck to the owner of this car. You have been given lots of advice and refuse to listen to any of it, sounds like you are on your own now.
09-11-2007, 12:28 PM
#119
TECH Apprentice
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Mchenry,IL
Posts: 308
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am only posting because I can not believe that you guys ask for help and then argue with the answers! 
1. IAT's are too high. At 6 psi you should not be running above 140 unless the exhaust housing is too small or you have been pounding on it for a long time with no way to cool the charge. What is the outside temps when the IAT's are getting so high?
2. Knock is bad. There should be NO knock at 6 psi. Period.
3. Stock injectors are too small. 90% duty cycle is too high. Anything over 80% is not recommended.
4. Most 6 psi STS kits make 380-420rwhp on a dynojet depending on 6sp or auto on a stock car. Reference there web site.
I would try and measure exhaust backpressure. There is a reason IAT's are so high and power is crapping out at 4000rpm's. Just my .02 take it for what it is worth. I have installed and tuned numerour STS systems.
Sorry if this has been recommended but I was not going to read 6 pages of bitching.
1. IAT's are too high. At 6 psi you should not be running above 140 unless the exhaust housing is too small or you have been pounding on it for a long time with no way to cool the charge. What is the outside temps when the IAT's are getting so high?
2. Knock is bad. There should be NO knock at 6 psi. Period.
3. Stock injectors are too small. 90% duty cycle is too high. Anything over 80% is not recommended.
4. Most 6 psi STS kits make 380-420rwhp on a dynojet depending on 6sp or auto on a stock car. Reference there web site.
I would try and measure exhaust backpressure. There is a reason IAT's are so high and power is crapping out at 4000rpm's. Just my .02 take it for what it is worth. I have installed and tuned numerour STS systems.
Sorry if this has been recommended but I was not going to read 6 pages of bitching.
09-11-2007, 12:30 PM
#120
TECH Apprentice
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Mchenry,IL
Posts: 308
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Zombie
If red is 7 and apricot is $ then what is dumb?
LS1: Knock knock..
darkhorizon: Who's there?
LS1: Knock Knock
darkhorizon: Is someone knocking?
LS1: Knock Knock BOOM biotch! Didn't you hear me Knocking?
Good luck to the owner of this car. You have been given lots of advice and refuse to listen to any of it, sounds like you are on your own now.
LS1: Knock knock..
darkhorizon: Who's there?
LS1: Knock Knock
darkhorizon: Is someone knocking?
LS1: Knock Knock BOOM biotch! Didn't you hear me Knocking?
Good luck to the owner of this car. You have been given lots of advice and refuse to listen to any of it, sounds like you are on your own now.
