Dynoed with the F1 today... few problems...
Thread Starter
8 sec potential, 12 sec slip
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From: Savannah, GA
I love the F1. Love the noise, and love the massive amount of air it moves! 
I just found out some interesting info from reviewing the videos from the dyno. It appears that the fuel pressure DOES drop from 70 to 60psi in the upper RPM's. I couldn't tell by reviewing it on the small screen on my camera, but now that I loaded the vids onto my computer it is very apparent. I am loading a couple vids up on photobucket right now. I'll post them up here as soon as they finish loading...
I just found out some interesting info from reviewing the videos from the dyno. It appears that the fuel pressure DOES drop from 70 to 60psi in the upper RPM's. I couldn't tell by reviewing it on the small screen on my camera, but now that I loaded the vids onto my computer it is very apparent. I am loading a couple vids up on photobucket right now. I'll post them up here as soon as they finish loading...
Thread Starter
8 sec potential, 12 sec slip
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From: Savannah, GA
Alright, here is the first run shot outside of the car. It does appear that you can slightly see it move a bit at the end of the run, so maybe it did spin on the dyno. I can't figure out what the puff of black smoke is there towards the end of the run. It was leaning out there at that point, so it couldn't be fuel could it? 
Thread Starter
8 sec potential, 12 sec slip
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Joined: Apr 2002
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From: Savannah, GA
And here are the gauges on the second run. Note how the fuel pressure does definitely start to drop at the upper RPMs. Is this indicative of the pumps or the line being insufficient?
The head gaskets could have been caused by a lean spike. I agree with the copper spray comment. If everything was nice you shouldn't have a problem. To quote Guess Who, "You don't lift the heads without detonation."
Thread Starter
8 sec potential, 12 sec slip
iTrader: (50)
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 4,092
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From: Savannah, GA
Weird how I had no knock retard then if there was detonation... I don't doubt that there was detonation though, it definitely was getting scary lean!! Maybe I need to get some new knock sensors.
Were the knock sensors turned on? I know some cars are tuned with them off. When you pull the heads you should take them to a machine shop and have them surfaced for a true level fit.
Thread Starter
8 sec potential, 12 sec slip
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 4,092
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From: Savannah, GA
Yes, the knock sensors are turned on. I even double checked with Glen (the tuner) to make sure their tables are in the stock setting and not desensitized at all. I know they are plugged in as well because last time I was on the dyno after I just got done with the new combo we got like 0.8° on a run and it tapered back down to 0 by the end of the run.
I really don't want to raise the compression at all by getting the heads resurfaced. They only have not even 4000 miles on them, so I'm hoping they will be okay to just put back on as is without any milling...
I'm still wondering what the black smoke was out the back near the end of the runs this time. It did it on both pulls after reviewing the videos. What is even weirder is that the cutout was open, so I don't know how any exhaust got to go thru the muffler...
I really don't want to raise the compression at all by getting the heads resurfaced. They only have not even 4000 miles on them, so I'm hoping they will be okay to just put back on as is without any milling...
I'm still wondering what the black smoke was out the back near the end of the runs this time. It did it on both pulls after reviewing the videos. What is even weirder is that the cutout was open, so I don't know how any exhaust got to go thru the muffler...
Thread Starter
8 sec potential, 12 sec slip
iTrader: (50)
Joined: Apr 2002
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From: Savannah, GA
Well, I just went out to the garage to check and make sure both pumps were working. I know the primary is (obviously) so really wanted to check the boost activated one. So I unplug the primary and then I went to bypass the boost switch in the engine compartment to get the second one to prime when I turn the key. I literally barely touched the switch and one of the connectors fell off! 
I then tried to put it back on and it wouldn't even stay on without falling off. So I highly doubt that could have been supporting any current going through it 
I crimped the connection with some pliers and put it back on the lead. This time it was snug and actually held in place. I put it on the normally closed connection and turned the key and sure enough it primed. Now I know the second pump works, and I highly doubt it worked before. Then I put the connector back on the normally open spot and buttoned everything back up with the primary pump. Hopefully, that was my only problem and the chain of events were as follows: It went lean because the second pump didn't come on which caused it to detonate and blow the head gasket. Hopefully that is all that happened. I called up Matt @ SDPC and ordered the 5 layer MLS gaskets today. They should be here by Wednesday, and maybe I'll get a chance to put them on this weekend. I can't believe all this happened because of a freakin loose connection. But hopefully, that was the only thing wrong and I don't have to do a whole new fuel system.
I then tried to put it back on and it wouldn't even stay on without falling off. So I highly doubt that could have been supporting any current going through it I crimped the connection with some pliers and put it back on the lead. This time it was snug and actually held in place. I put it on the normally closed connection and turned the key and sure enough it primed. Now I know the second pump works, and I highly doubt it worked before. Then I put the connector back on the normally open spot and buttoned everything back up with the primary pump. Hopefully, that was my only problem and the chain of events were as follows: It went lean because the second pump didn't come on which caused it to detonate and blow the head gasket. Hopefully that is all that happened. I called up Matt @ SDPC and ordered the 5 layer MLS gaskets today. They should be here by Wednesday, and maybe I'll get a chance to put them on this weekend. I can't believe all this happened because of a freakin loose connection. But hopefully, that was the only thing wrong and I don't have to do a whole new fuel system. LS1 Tech Stories
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Thats good new I was thinking that I have made @ the same HP with one Ractronix pump and a BAP so it makes sense to me that the second pump wasn't consistently workingor at all. Hope this fixes your problems. Look forward to more results.
Well, I just went out to the garage to check and make sure both pumps were working. I know the primary is (obviously) so really wanted to check the boost activated one. So I unplug the primary and then I went to bypass the boost switch in the engine compartment to get the second one to prime when I turn the key. I literally barely touched the switch and one of the connectors fell off! I then tried to put it back on and it wouldn't even stay on without falling off. So I highly doubt that could have been supporting any current going through it I crimped the connection with some pliers and put it back on the lead. This time it was snug and actually held in place. I put it on the normally closed connection and turned the key and sure enough it primed. Now I know the second pump works, and I highly doubt it worked before. Then I put the connector back on the normally open spot and buttoned everything back up with the primary pump. Hopefully, that was my only problem and the chain of events were as follows: It went lean because the second pump didn't come on which caused it to detonate and blow the head gasket. Hopefully that is all that happened. I called up Matt @ SDPC and ordered the 5 layer MLS gaskets today. They should be here by Wednesday, and maybe I'll get a chance to put them on this weekend. I can't believe all this happened because of a freakin loose connection. But hopefully, that was the only thing wrong and I don't have to do a whole new fuel system.
I then tried to put it back on and it wouldn't even stay on without falling off. So I highly doubt that could have been supporting any current going through it I crimped the connection with some pliers and put it back on the lead. This time it was snug and actually held in place. I put it on the normally closed connection and turned the key and sure enough it primed. Now I know the second pump works, and I highly doubt it worked before. Then I put the connector back on the normally open spot and buttoned everything back up with the primary pump. Hopefully, that was my only problem and the chain of events were as follows: It went lean because the second pump didn't come on which caused it to detonate and blow the head gasket. Hopefully that is all that happened. I called up Matt @ SDPC and ordered the 5 layer MLS gaskets today. They should be here by Wednesday, and maybe I'll get a chance to put them on this weekend. I can't believe all this happened because of a freakin loose connection. But hopefully, that was the only thing wrong and I don't have to do a whole new fuel system.That why I am running one pump. Sorry to your having problems.
Well, I just went out to the garage to check and make sure both pumps were working. I know the primary is (obviously) so really wanted to check the boost activated one. So I unplug the primary and then I went to bypass the boost switch in the engine compartment to get the second one to prime when I turn the key. I literally barely touched the switch and one of the connectors fell off! I then tried to put it back on and it wouldn't even stay on without falling off. So I highly doubt that could have been supporting any current going through it I crimped the connection with some pliers and put it back on the lead. This time it was snug and actually held in place. I put it on the normally closed connection and turned the key and sure enough it primed. Now I know the second pump works, and I highly doubt it worked before. Then I put the connector back on the normally open spot and buttoned everything back up with the primary pump. Hopefully, that was my only problem and the chain of events were as follows: It went lean because the second pump didn't come on which caused it to detonate and blow the head gasket. Hopefully that is all that happened. I called up Matt @ SDPC and ordered the 5 layer MLS gaskets today. They should be here by Wednesday, and maybe I'll get a chance to put them on this weekend. I can't believe all this happened because of a freakin loose connection. But hopefully, that was the only thing wrong and I don't have to do a whole new fuel system.
I then tried to put it back on and it wouldn't even stay on without falling off. So I highly doubt that could have been supporting any current going through it I crimped the connection with some pliers and put it back on the lead. This time it was snug and actually held in place. I put it on the normally closed connection and turned the key and sure enough it primed. Now I know the second pump works, and I highly doubt it worked before. Then I put the connector back on the normally open spot and buttoned everything back up with the primary pump. Hopefully, that was my only problem and the chain of events were as follows: It went lean because the second pump didn't come on which caused it to detonate and blow the head gasket. Hopefully that is all that happened. I called up Matt @ SDPC and ordered the 5 layer MLS gaskets today. They should be here by Wednesday, and maybe I'll get a chance to put them on this weekend. I can't believe all this happened because of a freakin loose connection. But hopefully, that was the only thing wrong and I don't have to do a whole new fuel system.Sounds like you may have found your problem. Ain't that a b**ch?
Thread Starter
8 sec potential, 12 sec slip
iTrader: (50)
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 4,092
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From: Savannah, GA
Now I just hope the only destruction was the head gaskets 
As i was reading through this whole thread, it described EXACTLY the problem i was having about 2 weeks ago... But i see that you already found what i was going to tell you to look for. I have the same, twin 255lb walboro setup and 1 of my pumps was dead... the car made a hella lotta power with only 1 pump, but it was working it too hard and my injector duty was wayyyyy too high...
I'd say you found your problem...
my only worry is, what if one dies when at WOT going down the road one day.... kaboom i guess?... that's a scary thought.... just b/c of this, i may go with a single pump this winter...
I'd say you found your problem...
my only worry is, what if one dies when at WOT going down the road one day.... kaboom i guess?... that's a scary thought.... just b/c of this, i may go with a single pump this winter...
Thread Starter
8 sec potential, 12 sec slip
iTrader: (50)
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 4,092
Likes: 2
From: Savannah, GA
Well, I have a meth system as well that is normally on. We were tuning it on the dyno first without meth to see where it was at, then we were going to start spraying the meth and adjust the tune accordingly. So IF that did happen under normal circumstances, the meth would hopefully fill in and prevent damage. I am also going to install an LED right by my fuel gauge that will come on when the second pump is on. That way I will know that it is at least getting power...
As i was reading through this whole thread, it described EXACTLY the problem i was having about 2 weeks ago... But i see that you already found what i was going to tell you to look for. I have the same, twin 255lb walboro setup and 1 of my pumps was dead... the car made a hella lotta power with only 1 pump, but it was working it too hard and my injector duty was wayyyyy too high...
I'd say you found your problem...
my only worry is, what if one dies when at WOT going down the road one day.... kaboom i guess?... that's a scary thought.... just b/c of this, i may go with a single pump this winter...
I'd say you found your problem...
my only worry is, what if one dies when at WOT going down the road one day.... kaboom i guess?... that's a scary thought.... just b/c of this, i may go with a single pump this winter...
Exactly why I went with a big single. Only downfall I can think of is a little noise, but my car has 1000 watts of stereo power and a loud exhaust so its no big deal at all.
You don't need KR to lift the heads.More than likely it is the timing -too high.
We had a 346/F1 car that would always lift the heads when we pushed timing.It would make 780rwhp all day but add 2 degree's of timing and push 840rwhp the heads would lift with no KR. We figured it was the pump gas doing it.
We had a 346/F1 car that would always lift the heads when we pushed timing.It would make 780rwhp all day but add 2 degree's of timing and push 840rwhp the heads would lift with no KR. We figured it was the pump gas doing it.
Thread Starter
8 sec potential, 12 sec slip
iTrader: (50)
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 4,092
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From: Savannah, GA
Hmmm... it was at 20° timing on 91 E10. Last time I had it tuned we ran 20° with no issues or knock, but that was before we had 10% ethanol in our gas here in Tulsa.
But that is interesting- I didn't know it could detonate and lift the heads without any KR. That is scarry... So how are you supposed to tune it not knowing where the threshold is by looking for KR?
But that is interesting- I didn't know it could detonate and lift the heads without any KR. That is scarry... So how are you supposed to tune it not knowing where the threshold is by looking for KR?
Hmmm... it was at 20° timing on 91 E10. Last time I had it tuned we ran 20° with no issues or knock, but that was before we had 10% ethanol in our gas here in Tulsa.
But that is interesting- I didn't know it could detonate and lift the heads without any KR. That is scarry... So how are you supposed to tune it not knowing where the threshold is by looking for KR?
But that is interesting- I didn't know it could detonate and lift the heads without any KR. That is scarry... So how are you supposed to tune it not knowing where the threshold is by looking for KR?
Jeff