Did you ever get to test the Wilson Billet Bank LS1 series manifold?

 

We did test the Wilson on a 427 engine, but we only tested it on a chassis role so the information is not great. It did pick up 15 hp if memory serves, and it looks bitchin!!

Kurt

 

Do RPM's even matter ?

If you had an engine making 800bhp at 6000rpm, or an engine making 800bhp, spinning to 9000rpm....

Surely airflow is going to be pretty much the same.

Or if you had an engine making 1200hp at 6000rpm, then this one will be consuming much more air.

 

I would still like to have the rpm band and the hp target if I get my choice. Some in this thread have stated that the runner length does not matter, that may be true but I don't agree. When the valve opens the low pressure zone fills with air and fuel mixed, the intake does not know its under pressure, it only knows the pressure on the other side of the valve is lower so it moves. When the valve shuts you get the pressure wave that can be tuned, so rpm becomes something that matters...I think! So on your 6000rpm engine the runner length/cross section would be different than the 9000rpm engine if I was building it and had a choice. That all being said the budget or packaging can trump all!!

Kurt

 

LOL...look at what intake was on my car when the intake lifted and by way of chain reaction, destroyed my motor...yup, an LS6.

Weird, eh?

 

First time for everything I guess. Where the bolts tight ? Were you using 25-30psi+ ?


I notice in one of your dyno vids, that a boost pipe blows off. Although I dont see how that would ever cause an engine to blow up.

 

9psi.

Pressure side pipe blew off from excessive resistance to airflow...ie #7 ring land breaking apart after the intake lifted and the motor went lean, detonating and wedging in the cylinder wall.

At least that's what I'm told.

 

Pipes blow off due to inadequate clamping, or pipes that have not been beaded to prevent this...or a combo of both.
I have never seen a pipe blow off, cause an engine to fail. I dont possibly see how that could EVER cause an engine to run lean. Too much air would cause that, not no air.

The LS6 intake is well proven in both strength, and flow, and doesnt really pose a resctriction, even at 1000bhp+ So if it was causing a restriction on yours....Im impressed

If yours was a stock motor with boost....unless the tuning is spot on, no7 is a ticking time bomb.

 

sombody either just flat out mis identified that problem or bs'd you over

ive had mine over 23# on several occasions including last night making the times in my sig

your intake did nothing wrong

the intake tube blew off because your bypass was either not installed defective or not installed correctly...this is assuming at least the tube was clamped appropriately

if your mass air sensor came out of the loop at some point, then potential engine damage can result, as it could potentially measure no airflow and give no fuel... but by the looks of the video the pipe comming off happens after you let off.. when there is really no damage that can occur

the last nail in the coffin of the intake lifting theory is that if air exited before going into the engine it would result in a rich symptom. not lean.

air(boost in) + fuel(measured and sprayed in) - air(leak out) = fuel(extra)

its not hard to take out a #7 ringland if even one or two things are just a little wrong. i broke my stock #7 the first day i put my first turbo kit on.

reguardless, sorry you had problems with it and hope your new combo holds up well.

 

In speaking of resistance to flow, I was not talking about the intake being inadequate. I was talking about a fully spooled turbo forcing air into a block that was chewing itself to bits.

As I stated before when the motor let go, I am no builder, tuner, or shortblock guru. I am simply a guy who knows enough to get me in trouble, and unfortunately lacks the time and skill to build my own car. I therefore have to rely on builders, tuners, and the interwebz to get any information related, and hopefully learn from there. This has certainly been a 101 course for me on worst-case scenarios. I do know that the intake tube blowing off was after-the-fact, and not the de-facto cause of the failure. What I had confusion on, was the fact that if the intake lifted, would it not unseat the injectors, since the fuel rail is attached? It's all speculation, unfortunately, and the blame seems to always go back to stock shortblock + 76GTS turbo@9psi = bad things for the motor is anything is a tick's hair off...and #7 is the "ticking time bomb".

That said, I am continuing to fight the intake tube blowing off. Crap aluminum tube with no dimpling is impossible to keep tight. It bends in every time I try and wrench it on.

Plus, my turbo's leaking oil, and the meth injection still isn't working. I will never buy a secondhand turbo system again.

Anyway, where were we?

/rant...back on topic.

EDIT: Mouse, car's SD tuned...and thanks for the well-wishes. It'll be stout when the bats are out of the belfry.

 

I'd like to know what shop told you that. I suspect who did. The manifold didn't blow your motor up, your tune probably did.

 

Might be worth changing to a different tuner, if they are telling you stuff like that.

And with proper clamps at only 9psi, hose retention shouldnt be that difficult. Unless aluminium pipe really is that flimsy ?

Change it to decent wall thickness, or stainless and get some T-Bolt clamps.

 

Just have someone weld a bead or find a local shop that has the little bead roller for tubing. And use t-bolt clamps for sure.

 

I think everyone is missing something here. Its not belt driven, the wastegate will keep the boost in the same ball park.

With a 3in open dp I moved 37lb/min at 10psi. with 2 1/2 stock catback hooked up, I made 10psi but only 32lb/min. Wastegate reference was the compressor.

Point is, I changed the flow drastically, but the boost remained the same.

D1SC on H/C 346 vs stock longblock, with the same pulley, the H/C motor always makes more power, even with significantly less boost.

Please don't EVER use water in a hose to explain airflow again. I refuse to believe that you have two degrees, and can't see the numerous things wrong with that comparison. I only have one, and it kills me.

 

For people debating actual airflow....

Who can rig up an airflow meter to fit pre blower, to measure actual airflow through the engine.

Although it is pointless, everyone knows FAST isnt worth it on FI.

 

Kurt,
Do you think a carb style throttle body might improve distribution vs. an elbow?

 

It might help depending on how the air entered, but the short runners will always get more air it seems. The best I have seen is the cast elbow on a 2 inch open spacer, but I still need to trim the outboard cylinders a bit.....


Kurt

 

In light of the runner issues involved with most all the intakes out there, would an Idependent Throttle Body setup with some sort of boost box built not be ideal? I realize this setup would be extremely expensive and tuning would be a nightmare but just for the sake of bench racing what are your guys' thoughts?

 

This is true, I already stated that. See post # 104

I agree. Never disagreed with that. This discussion is about intake manifolds, not heads.

Air and water are both fluid flow. Air is a fluid. Its not a liquid, but its a fluid. I don't care if you believe I have 2 degrees or not. I do and have them hanging on the wall to prove it.

 

But isn't a single plane (Vic Jr) more even that the OEM style intakes? Doesn't the inherent LS style variation in runner lengths / distribution contribute to some of these cracked ring lands & such on 7 & 8?