View Poll Results: Vortech or STS
Vortech supercharger
31
26.72%
STS rear mount with intercooler
48
41.38%
Other(please specify in post)
37
31.90%
Voters: 116. You may not vote on this poll
Vortech or STS?
Did STS get a carb approved sticker?? I remember when my buddy had one of his car he had to go under the table to get smogged... You should check out Ed Blown Vert's car.. He has a D1SC on his car and somehow get's it smogged... I also have a D1 on my car and absolutely love it... It's so easy to maintain... If you don't know how to work on your car then you should really learn because with any kit you're gonna have to learn how to do the common stuff...
I will be going with a cog-driven D1SC with 8-rib kit on my forged 347 motor. I am nearly finished with my supporting mods ... being:
(1) American Racing Headers (1 7/8" primaries) will be installed next Monday.
(2) Selling the AFR 205's and buy new heads to bring down the compression.
(3) Selling the SVO 30# injectors to upgrade to 60#'ers before year's end (in 22 days).
Then it's coming. AIR ASSAULT!!!! 101st Airborne Division (Air Assult) ... keep your head down over there bud.
(1) American Racing Headers (1 7/8" primaries) will be installed next Monday.
(2) Selling the AFR 205's and buy new heads to bring down the compression.
(3) Selling the SVO 30# injectors to upgrade to 60#'ers before year's end (in 22 days).
Then it's coming. AIR ASSAULT!!!! 101st Airborne Division (Air Assult) ... keep your head down over there bud.
Did STS get a carb approved sticker?? I remember when my buddy had one of his car he had to go under the table to get smogged... You should check out Ed Blown Vert's car.. He has a D1SC on his car and somehow get's it smogged... I also have a D1 on my car and absolutely love it... It's so easy to maintain... If you don't know how to work on your car then you should really learn because with any kit you're gonna have to learn how to do the common stuff...
TECH Regular
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 475
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From: Orlaanndoooo
ProCharger. I have waaay too many miles on stock engines with ProChargers on them to entertain the notion that they will kill a stock engine. I've relentlessly beat a couple of them to death, but I was unreasonably thrashing them constantly. I pretty much wore them out. No failures, no quick deaths, just beat on them for a couple of years...until I had up to 75% leakdown. Talk about not being able to keep the dipstick in...wow.
Keeping into consideration that sadly us California residents have to worry about smog, I'd say go with either a Procharger or Vortech due to the fact that they have kits that come with CARB EO. Although STS kits have a CARB EO for some reason according to smog techs, that CARB EO only applies to GTO, here's a link http://arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/devices/eo/D-593.pdf.
Last edited by Zeke34; Dec 13, 2007 at 08:11 AM.
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Thread Starter
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (9)
Joined: Nov 2006
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From: Fresno, California
Keeping into consideration that sadly us California residents have to worry about smog, I'd say go with either a Procharger or Vortech due to the fact that they have kits that come with CARB EO. Although STS kits have a CARB EO for some reason according to smog techs, that CARB EO only applies to GTO, here's a link http://arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/devices/eo/D-593.pdf.
Teching In
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
I actually called the Air Resource Board and got transfered around to someone I could ask about CARB E.O approval. I asked specifically about the STS kit on a 99 firebird. The person looked it up in her computer and said that it has CARB approval and that I would have no problems with smog. Just to double check I called STS and they mentioned something like they have a CARB E.O. number but needed to modify their kit's pcv something or other to satisfy a concern brought up by CARB and that the updated kits would be available soon. That was a few months ago.
Anyway since then I have become interested in a p1sc. Anyone know if having a FMIC causes any problems with smog? Technically the E.O. says an air-to-air intercooler is an allowed modification but does that mean it needs to be the one from the ati kit or can it be some other intercooler?
Anyway since then I have become interested in a p1sc. Anyone know if having a FMIC causes any problems with smog? Technically the E.O. says an air-to-air intercooler is an allowed modification but does that mean it needs to be the one from the ati kit or can it be some other intercooler?
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,501
Likes: 7
From: Ft. Irwin, California (But Virginia is home)
My $0.02....the STS. I thought it as a pin in the a$$ at first orking out all the little bugs, but it's no worse than the Procharger after working with my friend n his P1SC car! They all have their good and bad sides.
For example:
Procharger - belt slippage. It needs to be stupid tight. The one on my firend Ricky's car is like guitar wire it's so taut, but it still only produces 5PSI on a 7lb pully. Install of a new belt is also a chore, as on an auto trans car it goes over the lines, meaning they have to be disconnected from the radiator. He was also experienceing some cooling issues in Hawaii stop and go traffic and the IAT's were stupid (granted, he does have the OLD intercoolers). Still, we saw intake temps over 150 degrees a lot and over 190 degrees once!
With a FMIC it would alleviate this prob and overall the kit makes tremendous HP, but it's certainly not the greatest thing since sliced bread.
Vortech - Well engineered. Need to drill into the oil pan, which is a scary proposition if you muck it up! The aftercooler is a bit unsightly on top of the engine, but easy enough to get on and off. The biggest drawback of the Vortech is that in the aftercooled kit it has a 9lb pully. That's really streatching the limit of what the engine can handle.
STS - The pipe in front of the driveshaft hangs lo making speedbumps a real pain. TRT sells a kit that lessens the drop, but it's still there. A FMIC is really a must, as IAT's will go over 135 in traffic w/out. Also, the front pipe hangs LOW w/out the FMIC. Not able to use subframes on the driver side either. Also need to buy a lot of the parts separate, as the kit does not come w/ fuel injectors, pump, etc.
In short, do your research and you'll be able to determine what is best for you. All FI kits have their pros and cons. They end out about the same $$ once complete (5-7K total).
Hope this helps ya.
For example:
Procharger - belt slippage. It needs to be stupid tight. The one on my firend Ricky's car is like guitar wire it's so taut, but it still only produces 5PSI on a 7lb pully. Install of a new belt is also a chore, as on an auto trans car it goes over the lines, meaning they have to be disconnected from the radiator. He was also experienceing some cooling issues in Hawaii stop and go traffic and the IAT's were stupid (granted, he does have the OLD intercoolers). Still, we saw intake temps over 150 degrees a lot and over 190 degrees once!
With a FMIC it would alleviate this prob and overall the kit makes tremendous HP, but it's certainly not the greatest thing since sliced bread.Vortech - Well engineered. Need to drill into the oil pan, which is a scary proposition if you muck it up! The aftercooler is a bit unsightly on top of the engine, but easy enough to get on and off. The biggest drawback of the Vortech is that in the aftercooled kit it has a 9lb pully. That's really streatching the limit of what the engine can handle.
STS - The pipe in front of the driveshaft hangs lo making speedbumps a real pain. TRT sells a kit that lessens the drop, but it's still there. A FMIC is really a must, as IAT's will go over 135 in traffic w/out. Also, the front pipe hangs LOW w/out the FMIC. Not able to use subframes on the driver side either. Also need to buy a lot of the parts separate, as the kit does not come w/ fuel injectors, pump, etc.
In short, do your research and you'll be able to determine what is best for you. All FI kits have their pros and cons. They end out about the same $$ once complete (5-7K total).
Hope this helps ya.
How do I change this text
iTrader: (26)
Joined: Jan 2005
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From: Behind the TIG welder
NOT STS!! I don't have either setup, but I have tuned each and helped people get their stuff up and going... Almost *everything* about the STS is junky, simple, and cheap. STS has no bevel or bead around their charge piping, and the **** blows apart until you do SOMETHING to change that. Whether it be roll the ends of every charge pipe or what not. This seems like basic common sense. The couplers it comes with are garbage; all of them will have to be replaced. They WILL come apart, so save yourself some grief and drop the cash on HTS couplers up front.
I have had my STS kit for a few years now. I have yet to blow a charge pipe at 13 psi of boost. (190kpa) Which btw has dimples to help hold the hump hose on the pipe.
I am open minded enough to stat the return oil pump (which has not gave me one once of trouble) is noisy. You can just barely hear it over the fuel pump on the driver’s side. I still hate the fact I have to rely on another oil pump that is prone to fail, but so far so good.
I cannot comment on some of the other things said, as my kit is obviously in a truck not a car, and I refuse to **** on a product before I try it myself....
It doesn't matter what type of FI you go with you are shortening the eng life. By how much will depend on many things....
I don't get it...sts is the popular vote but there has been quite a few kits for sale dirt cheap on here over the last couple months.
There was/is even a guy looking to trade his complete kit w/67 upgrade and fmic straight up for a G-trim. Why are so many getting rid of the sts kits if they are as good as people are saying in this thread? Sts is the newest forced induction brought to F bodies too isn't it?
Like said earlier, there is no Vortech rep or sponsor(that I know of) on this forum so that might have something to do with the results of this poll as well.
There was/is even a guy looking to trade his complete kit w/67 upgrade and fmic straight up for a G-trim. Why are so many getting rid of the sts kits if they are as good as people are saying in this thread? Sts is the newest forced induction brought to F bodies too isn't it? Like said earlier, there is no Vortech rep or sponsor(that I know of) on this forum so that might have something to do with the results of this poll as well.
I can't believe all of the votes for sts, I say procharger but if it has to be b/w the 2 go vortech. As long as you don't want to push it too far if will be fine. If so call epp up for a D1 kit and be done. I almost went all a 3 of these choices but backed out of the sts kit originally, than the vortech kit was sold one me twice from 2 different guys than I almost got scammed on a procharger kit. Finally got a single front mount turbo kit and think I will be really happy with it. Anyways, procharger for the vote.
I'll add to this, seeing as I actually have an STS.
The upgrades and double-work alone will make the APS system look cheap.
NEG's
1. The oil pump sucks. So does the high-flow upgrade pump.
2. Count on losing boost by the time the air hits the manifold.
3. 11ty-billion extra places for a boost leak
4. Hot-side piping is ***.
5. No ground clearance, and watch the f*ck out when backing up near a curb.
6. Turbo = not a muffler. NO stealth factor AT ALL.
7. Remote turbo: good for cooling intake charge, also good for cooling exhaust...bad for heat-loving turbochargers. Requires exhaust wrapping.
8. Spools in about the same time as it takes a 4cylinder car to pass you.
PLUSes:
1. Initially cheap. (You'll find out why when you bolt it up).
2. Fairly simple install.
3. Sounds terrific if you like to hear the turbo...it's f-in loud.
4. " " " " " the sound of open headers.
5. Oil pump noise gives the car that "racecar" feel.
6. Scares children, small animals, and most would-be challengers at a light.
7. After you upgrade everything in the kit: Mother of Christ they are fast and make good power.
8. Referring to #8 above, that 4cyl car enjoys precisely 1/16th a second of victory before his paint is ripped off the car as your fully spooled turbo passes him like he threw on thrust reversers. This also works with V8's, V10's, etc...
The upgrades and double-work alone will make the APS system look cheap.
NEG's
1. The oil pump sucks. So does the high-flow upgrade pump.
2. Count on losing boost by the time the air hits the manifold.
3. 11ty-billion extra places for a boost leak
4. Hot-side piping is ***.
5. No ground clearance, and watch the f*ck out when backing up near a curb.
6. Turbo = not a muffler. NO stealth factor AT ALL.
7. Remote turbo: good for cooling intake charge, also good for cooling exhaust...bad for heat-loving turbochargers. Requires exhaust wrapping.
8. Spools in about the same time as it takes a 4cylinder car to pass you.
PLUSes:
1. Initially cheap. (You'll find out why when you bolt it up).
2. Fairly simple install.
3. Sounds terrific if you like to hear the turbo...it's f-in loud.
4. " " " " " the sound of open headers.
5. Oil pump noise gives the car that "racecar" feel.
6. Scares children, small animals, and most would-be challengers at a light.
7. After you upgrade everything in the kit: Mother of Christ they are fast and make good power.
8. Referring to #8 above, that 4cyl car enjoys precisely 1/16th a second of victory before his paint is ripped off the car as your fully spooled turbo passes him like he threw on thrust reversers. This also works with V8's, V10's, etc...
There is nothing left in my kit that even sounds like STS... other then its still a rearmount. You gotta love a turbo under your ***!
What are your no-**** goals?
Teching In
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
From: Tacoma, WA
Another thing to consider is you can make your own vortech kit pretty cheaply. I know youll say im retarded, but goto, i think its, superchargerparts.com (ill get the corrrect link up) and piece the kit together (using new vortech parts) and you can get the kit for 1500 less than buying the kit straight up. I was told about this and didnt believe it either, but it was true.