OK let's think for a second that I cracked my ringland and will need to build up the motor now instead of later. If I'm gonna build it, it's gonna be unbreakable. So i get the obvious forged internals. Will I have any problems running 15 psi with forged internals?

Assuming that isn't a problem, what fuel setup will I need? I'm thinking of upgrading my fuel line to an -8AN and actually trying to drop it into the tank like Mighty Mouse did. I really wouldn't need to change anything after I get to the fuel rails. I already have an -8AN crossover and -6AN line to the reg. So that shouldn't need to be changed. But my fuel filter worries me that it's too restrictive. So that will need to be upgraded with the -8AN lines. Then if i can find a way to properly seal and mount it, drop the -8AN line into the tank. Then split it off and pul from two Walbro GSS340s.

Knowing that I'm boost referenced and thinking of running 15-20 psi of boost, will two walbros be able to handle 80psi of fuel at WOT? Do any of you guys run boost referenced FPRs with that much boost? Would it be smart to run one pump only when in boost and the other all the time? Would that help my fuel mileage at all?

I'm not really interested in the motor build up just yet. I'm simply curious about the fuel setup I'll need to feed the beast!

Thanks for your thoughts guys.
Mike

 

my second pump comes on at 5# boost.


with a base of 60psi i have seen 82# of fuel pressure

from what i understand thats about as far as you want to take the injector, from there i will have to start backing down the base fuel pressure and retuning the injector flowrate so that i dont exeed mid 80's in fuel pressure reguardless of boost.. follow me?

i got my -8 filter from ls1 speed for $40. and its snugly tie wrapped behind the white gas tank vent thingy over the axle.

 

Before you build a 2nd engine, I think you might want to figure out what went wrong with this setup.

You have more of a fuel system than I do and it looks like a busted piston/blown HG. I only have 42#'s and an inline Walbro with the intank running the stock pressure with my 8# D1-SC tuner kit and I run rich at WOT. I did my A/F by tuning vice a FMU/FPR. Did you ever get it on the dyno? In your tuning did you turn off COT? You might want to pull the heads and see exactly when wrong. I think the FPR is your problem, it's not hooked up right or the pressure going to it is wacked or your fuel map is really off.

It's on the return side of the fuel system, between the fuel return on the rails and the tank? Where did you get the pressure signal from? Behind the TB, was anything else using that line? Boost gage, Bypass valve, etc...? To set the base FP, at idle you removed the hose and set the pressure then replaced the hose?

Have you pulled the plugs? Any damage to them? How do they look? Which plug were you running? How is the coolant, full or low?

You can build the crap out of an engine, but if you don't have it tuned you might have well tossed the money in the trash and sit on the curb and have a AAA card in the wallet to get you home. Forged only gives you more of a safety margin but does not mean you can't hurt the engine.

It's all in the tuning. Some advice is sit back figure out what caused this engine to fail and then build a new one with better parts, and a plan to get it to the dyno ASAP after you get it running. If you have to drive it there, remove the blower belt to get it there without getting into boost.

Good luck

 

I couldn't agree with you more AG. I think I know what I did wrong on this setup. By boost referencing I should have been seeing 68# of FP. But my FPR would get to 60-62 nand stop. So the engine was definitely running lean up top. The part I am responicble for is ignorance. I backed my timing WAY off and though that as long as I wasn't seeing any KR, even with the engine running lean up top, then I was safe. Apparently I was wrong. I'm not sure how you crack a ring land without detonation, but most likely that's what happened.

This is specifically why I am addressing the fuel setup now, instead of later when the new engine is in. Fix the fuel on the f'd up engine and get that working right, then drop in the new block(or rebuild the old one)

No, never got the fuel figured out, so there's no reason to pay money to have someone tell me it's not running right.



Yes

That's is most definitely gonna happen after some initial testing.

You're not the first to say this, but I really don't think it's the FPR. This is not to say I won't listen to anyone that has a good suggestion. If I let the car ide, and hook a bike pump up to my fuel line it will shoot the FP right up to 80psi, or whatever it is I pump the bike pump up to.

Correct. I have a -6AN ine going to the passenger rails, -8AN line crossing over from the passenger side rail to the drivers side rail, then a -6AN line from the driver's side rail to the FPR, then a rubber fuel line going from the FPR to the old steel fuel supply line(now routed as just a return line).


You can see my FPR here. If you look at the right(drivers side) port to the FPR you will see my FP sending unit. If you are talking about my vac signal, then I have it coming directly off the map port. I T'd off the line going to the check valve. Then I have a vaccuum line running around, behind the motor and around to the FPR. It's actually one line that feeds the FPR, then the eletronic boost gauge unit(small box that sits very close to the vac line), and then ends up in the surge valve. Some have said I am putting too much on one line and need a dedicated line to just the FPR. I am willing to try this if you guys think it will help.


Yes, as ai described above, I pull all those signals right off the small port of the MAP sensor.

Yes I did that.

No I have not pulled the plugs yet, but when I run the compression test, i'll have to do that anyways, so I'll examine each plug and even snap a pic for you guys so you can see.

NGK TR6's with a .035 gap

Not sure, having checked. What would this tell me? I haven't noticed any coolant leaking on the ground if that means anything to you.

Thanks bro. I apreciate your help.

Mike

 

Reduce your photos to about 600 wide pixel (no more than 800) before you post an image, to avoid this superwide thread.

 

There... I did it for you... whew!

 

I would tap the vacuum signal right behind the TB. YOu would think any place it would read the same. My beater car is a Prelude with 2XX,XXX miles on it. While doing some repair work, I broke the hose fitting off the TB for the MAP, being lazy I just "T" off another line that was on the intake that was about 2 inches away. The car ran like crap, so off came the TB and in went a plastic barb fitting and a good dose of JB WELD Let it setup and it was happy again. I guess it wanted the strongest signal which would be right behind the TB. On your setup it will see what the TB is doing and help control the fuel faster. I know this sounds crazy, but the Prelude proved me and a Honda Tech wrong when we did the "T" fix.

As for damage on a piston, that is nothing, on my Turbo MR2, I did a little WOT testing and by the end of the run it won't idle. Being the PITA car it was, I kept a set of plugs and tools in it Pulling the plugs, 2 of the 4 were at ZERO gap, guess I had a little knock going on and the pressure wave closed the plug gap. Also noticed something one time when I pulled the head to replace the HG. I pulled the pistons and discovered that the knock had crushed the forged JE pistons down on to the rings, locking them in place. So forged parts can withstand more abuse than stock, but don't mean they can't be hurt.

Things I would look at are:
1. COT being off, could have made things worst. When messing with a FI car and A/F always do it on a dyno with a WB O2 plugged in. One with realtime reading is always better, than just a graph after the fact.

2. Run a line to the FPR if you plan to keep it or just use large enough injectors to keep it happy. Tune it so the injectors feed the monster, that way you take one varible out of the problem. If you keep the FPR then the FP will always change along with the PW on the injectors. If you just run the stock FPR then the FP stays a constant and you can adjust the injectors. I can see running a AFPR on older cars where the PCM/ECU could not control the injectors at idle with a small enough PW, but now they can do very short PW's on the injectors to give an engine good idle.

3. Look for specks of aluminum on the plugs, if you were running lean, the pistons might have been close to the melting point and you would have small specks of aluminum embedded on the plug. Also look for coolant on the plugs

Coolant level, if the HG let go, you could be pulling coolant in the clynder and forcing exhuast gases into the coolant. If you are low, you might want to try to find a coolant system pressure tester, then with all the plugs out you can put pressure to the system and see which plug hole the coolant pours out of, then you know where the HG was compromised at. Try to drain all the coolant out of the engine when you pull the heads, then its not as messy when the heads let go of the block and any coolant decides to everywhere and you might be able to see if the HG let go if your coolant level was lower than normal.

Might want to consider running something like Water Wetter to help with the temps of engine. Then less chance of knock if you are getting better heat transfer to the coolant. Also maybe a little higher pressure cap to keep steam bubbles from forming. Every little bit helps.


I would pull the plugs first and see what they are telling you, then do a leak down and a compression test on the engine. That way you know where to look for your problem. You might be able to hear the air leaking into the headers or intake. I would remove the hose from the TB and have it open when you do the test.

Sorry for being long winded...