KB Vs D1sc Discussion
Hey guys,
Redrumss pretty much summed it up with my dyno graph from my 402. What he didnt tell you, is that we went WELL north of 900rwtq and just over 900rwhp on 18psi in my LS2 402 @ 9.5:1cr and a 230-234 cam..
I did 99% of the R&D for the HIGH HP testing on the KB (LS platform)
Plus, I am the US distributor for KB (LS platform) and can hook you guys up better than ANY shop in the country. Dont hesitate to give me a shout..
There is NO DOUBT in my mind that the KB 2.8H will go north of 1000rwhp/1000rwtq on a built LS based motor.. And I am willing to put my money where my mouth is..
To date, I have built the highest HP/TQ KB (LS based) motor anywhere. But I have a feeling my good buddy Redrumss is gonna give me a run for my money.
Until that is, I release the setup I was talking to him about on the phone the other day..
This is what 16psi and 850rwtq sounds like...(You might need a napkin to wipe up)
Redrumss pretty much summed it up with my dyno graph from my 402. What he didnt tell you, is that we went WELL north of 900rwtq and just over 900rwhp on 18psi in my LS2 402 @ 9.5:1cr and a 230-234 cam..
I did 99% of the R&D for the HIGH HP testing on the KB (LS platform)
Plus, I am the US distributor for KB (LS platform) and can hook you guys up better than ANY shop in the country. Dont hesitate to give me a shout..
There is NO DOUBT in my mind that the KB 2.8H will go north of 1000rwhp/1000rwtq on a built LS based motor.. And I am willing to put my money where my mouth is..
To date, I have built the highest HP/TQ KB (LS based) motor anywhere. But I have a feeling my good buddy Redrumss is gonna give me a run for my money.
Until that is, I release the setup I was talking to him about on the phone the other day..
This is what 16psi and 850rwtq sounds like...(You might need a napkin to wipe up)
How livable was the car at that level? I am gonna be using this thing on the streets and I am gonna be doing back to back pulls in hot weather from 0 to 150 was the stock intercooler on the 2.8sufficient when you were pushing those power levels. Also could you get any traction and how fast would that vette have run in the quarter if it could have hooked
Being that the throttle response was instant, the car was very very predictable. I would say it was no different than a normal NA stroker motor at light/mid throttle. When you get on it, the boost is predictable, so you know EXACTLY when its gonna hit. Unlike centrifugals or TT's. So it gives you the ability to modulate the throttle to control wheel spin.
The torque is soo linear, that as long as you get the tires to hook at the beginning, its pretty easy to keep them hooked.
I live in Las Vegas, Nevada. So I am VERY familiar with temp issues. I custom designed a setup that virtually eliminated any additional heat issues.
It consisted on a AFCO "Pro Series" dual row heat exchanger, along with a 20gph coolant pump. This exchanger was mounted directly in front of the high pressure area of the nose of the car.
After high boost runs in the middle of summer, you could easily open the coolant resv and stick your finger in the coolant. I would say it was about 90*.
Heres a few pics.
The torque is soo linear, that as long as you get the tires to hook at the beginning, its pretty easy to keep them hooked.
I live in Las Vegas, Nevada. So I am VERY familiar with temp issues. I custom designed a setup that virtually eliminated any additional heat issues.
It consisted on a AFCO "Pro Series" dual row heat exchanger, along with a 20gph coolant pump. This exchanger was mounted directly in front of the high pressure area of the nose of the car.
After high boost runs in the middle of summer, you could easily open the coolant resv and stick your finger in the coolant. I would say it was about 90*.
Heres a few pics.
Kb is the third highest?? Is that the one that has the sharp increase all of a sudden around 4k rpm.
The 2 top lines look like they are the setup to have.. Those lines crossing close to 5250 make me think they are HP and tq but thats not the x and y axis labeled on the graph
The 2 top lines look like they are the setup to have.. Those lines crossing close to 5250 make me think they are HP and tq but thats not the x and y axis labeled on the graph
These are not HP or tq graphs, solely boost in psi. That's the thing to remember, while the turbo may have the same amount of boost, it will be making more power.
No, KB is the 3rd highest from the start. I have the original article right in front of me. The factory Eaton makes more boost on the low end, but falls off up top. The KB doesn't make the most out of the gate, but it comes back in the midrange and does so with great efficiency.
KB is the 3rd highest. The one with the sharp increase at 4,000 is the turbocharger.
These are not HP or tq graphs, solely boost in psi. That's the thing to remember, while the turbo may have the same amount of boost, it will be making more power.
No, KB is the 3rd highest from the start. I have the original article right in front of me. The factory Eaton makes more boost on the low end, but falls off up top. The KB doesn't make the most out of the gate, but it comes back in the midrange and does so with great efficiency.
These are not HP or tq graphs, solely boost in psi. That's the thing to remember, while the turbo may have the same amount of boost, it will be making more power.
No, KB is the 3rd highest from the start. I have the original article right in front of me. The factory Eaton makes more boost on the low end, but falls off up top. The KB doesn't make the most out of the gate, but it comes back in the midrange and does so with great efficiency.
I am going turbo on my project, but there's a few reasons. If you can fit it on a LSX car, I would go with a twin screw blower, everytime. I doubt you'll ever find the point where the blower won't keep up. The power curve will be just brutal, start to finish.
I'd go KB. It has the top end over the Eaton, the low and mid range over the turbo and CF, and will sound wicked. And in fact, it even has low end over the Eaton. It may be shy 2psi, but it is running more efficiently because of the twin screw design. It costs less power, and heats the air less.
I am going turbo on my project, but there's a few reasons. If you can fit it on a LSX car, I would go with a twin screw blower, everytime. I doubt you'll ever find the point where the blower won't keep up. The power curve will be just brutal, start to finish.
I am going turbo on my project, but there's a few reasons. If you can fit it on a LSX car, I would go with a twin screw blower, everytime. I doubt you'll ever find the point where the blower won't keep up. The power curve will be just brutal, start to finish.
Last edited by sciff5; Feb 21, 2008 at 07:52 PM.
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TECH Resident
Joined: Jul 2007
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From: Florida
from what i have been told talking to people, the KB does not heat soak the car.
Maggie's dont have the heat soak issues people love to talk about, unless you get up in the super high HP range (700+ maybe). The KB is way more efficient then a roots as well.
Maggie's dont have the heat soak issues people love to talk about, unless you get up in the super high HP range (700+ maybe). The KB is way more efficient then a roots as well.
Glad yah stopped into the thread because before this I was sure I was gonna put a D1sc or F1a on my car instead.. but because I would have to modify the GTO kit to fit my Rx7... it kind of dissuaded me from moving forward with it. The KB simplifies things for me because I wont have to run any intercooler piping and seems to deliver the same top end punch with a lot more under the curve. I just wanted to hear from you guys (prob the best Procharger vendor that I know of) why a procharger would be a better choice. They both seem to be the same price.. the kb even being a little cheaper.
FormerVendor
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,540
Likes: 0
From: Hell AFB
Glad yah stopped into the thread because before this I was sure I was gonna put a D1sc or F1a on my car instead.. but because I would have to modify the GTO kit to fit my Rx7... it kind of dissuaded me from moving forward with it. The KB simplifies things for me because I wont have to run any intercooler piping and seems to deliver the same top end punch with a lot more under the curve. I just wanted to hear from you guys (prob the best Procharger vendor that I know of) why a procharger would be a better choice. They both seem to be the same price.. the kb even being a little cheaper.
IF you can hook it, the KB will be the faster one.
The KB does make a swap a bit easier due to no routing of ic pipes and what not, just a huge snorkle for the filter.
A big heat exchanger would be a must, bigger the better! I have seen a few diffrent ways to run a ATI on these rx7s, the gto kit is a bit tight on the air filter side, but is do-able. A vette kit puts the blower into the hood.
A top mount blower should clear depending on hood.
I have a soft spot for FD's , combind that with a KB whine and 800ftlbs/tq
What year of rx7?
IF you can hook it, the KB will be the faster one.
The KB does make a swap a bit easier due to no routing of ic pipes and what not, just a huge snorkle for the filter.
A big heat exchanger would be a must, bigger the better! I have seen a few diffrent ways to run a ATI on these rx7s, the gto kit is a bit tight on the air filter side, but is do-able. A vette kit puts the blower into the hood.
A top mount blower should clear depending on hood.
I have a soft spot for FD's , combind that with a KB whine and 800ftlbs/tq
IF you can hook it, the KB will be the faster one.
The KB does make a swap a bit easier due to no routing of ic pipes and what not, just a huge snorkle for the filter.
A big heat exchanger would be a must, bigger the better! I have seen a few diffrent ways to run a ATI on these rx7s, the gto kit is a bit tight on the air filter side, but is do-able. A vette kit puts the blower into the hood.
A top mount blower should clear depending on hood.
I have a soft spot for FD's , combind that with a KB whine and 800ftlbs/tq
Unfortunatly its a FC an 89 GTU, no sunroof and roll up windows.. the perfect track car.. BUt it will be completly stripped of weight and I'll be seeing how far I can push it (shouldent be too hard at 2500lbs). Other than modifying the intake tubing.. (I saw the pics of the FC you guys did) what else needed to be modified to make the GTO D1sc kit work on that FC?
I think if I got the KB the 4.10 gears in the rear end will have to go. I'll have to get like 3.52s or 3.23s just to manage the torque.
Last edited by sciff5; Feb 22, 2008 at 08:04 PM.
FormerVendor
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,540
Likes: 0
From: Hell AFB
Unfortunatly its a FC an 89 GTU, no sunroof and roll up windows.. the perfect track car.. BUt it will be completly stripped of weight and I'll be seeing how far I can push it (shouldent be too hard at 2500lbs). Other than modifying the intake tubing.. (I saw the pics of the FC you guys did) what else needed to be modified to make the GTO D1sc kit work on that FC?
I think if I got the KB the 4.10 gears in the rear end will have to go. I'll have to get like 3.52s or 3.23s just to manage the torque.
I think if I got the KB the 4.10 gears in the rear end will have to go. I'll have to get like 3.52s or 3.23s just to manage the torque.
A lower gear is a must, but beware if you spin the tires it will spin up a bit faster so it may be a bit more dangerous to pedal though it.
We had to hang a good Ic out front, it blocks alot of radiator room and you cannot fit a good sized core. You would probably want a custom core due to efficiency and you can build it any size.
Power to weight i guess lol, anything over 600rwhp will be crazy, a fbody with 600hp and 3500lbs is pretty peppy.
A lower gear is a must, but beware if you spin the tires it will spin up a bit faster so it may be a bit more dangerous to pedal though it.
We had to hang a good Ic out front, it blocks alot of radiator room and you cannot fit a good sized core. You would probably want a custom core due to efficiency and you can build it any size.
A lower gear is a must, but beware if you spin the tires it will spin up a bit faster so it may be a bit more dangerous to pedal though it.
We had to hang a good Ic out front, it blocks alot of radiator room and you cannot fit a good sized core. You would probably want a custom core due to efficiency and you can build it any size.
Will deff need to cut a hole in the hood, which I already have but its a steel hood so I got a stock aluminum hood to replace it and I'll prob have to get a fiberglass/plastic scoop for summit
I still need to get the long tube headers to fit, I need to hook up the fuel system, and do a little more wiring and she'll be on the road.
I have been reading about the WHipple 3.3 as well and I would assume that with half a liter more displacement it should have even more potential? Anyone know if that would be a correct assumtion?
Also do you guys know if you can connect a front mount heat exchanger to the whipple the same way you would with the KB?
All things being equal the whipple actually sounds little cheaper and easier because they make kits for the F body ls1 which is what I have in my car.
American_Hp I know others have asked you this but for KB hot rod kit why wouldent they use F body accessories.. almost everyone I know using an ls1 in another car got it from an F body.
Also do you guys know if you can connect a front mount heat exchanger to the whipple the same way you would with the KB?
All things being equal the whipple actually sounds little cheaper and easier because they make kits for the F body ls1 which is what I have in my car.
American_Hp I know others have asked you this but for KB hot rod kit why wouldent they use F body accessories.. almost everyone I know using an ls1 in another car got it from an F body.
Also do you guys know if you can connect a front mount heat exchanger to the whipple the same way you would with the KB?
Jim
Just as many wrecked C5's as F-body's. Why would Kenne Bell change the snout setup from what they already make when your doing a "hot rod" setup.
I have been reading about the WHipple 3.3 as well and I would assume that with half a liter more displacement it should have even more potential? Anyone know if that would be a correct assumtion?
Also do you guys know if you can connect a front mount heat exchanger to the whipple the same way you would with the KB?
All things being equal the whipple actually sounds little cheaper and easier because they make kits for the F body ls1 which is what I have in my car.
American_Hp I know others have asked you this but for KB hot rod kit why wouldent they use F body accessories.. almost everyone I know using an ls1 in another car got it from an F body.
Also do you guys know if you can connect a front mount heat exchanger to the whipple the same way you would with the KB?
All things being equal the whipple actually sounds little cheaper and easier because they make kits for the F body ls1 which is what I have in my car.
American_Hp I know others have asked you this but for KB hot rod kit why wouldent they use F body accessories.. almost everyone I know using an ls1 in another car got it from an F body.