$11K to spend......
lol. ^ that's what someone else said on a local forum, and I told him then I'd be looking at a $34,000 build once I doubled my estimate for 650RWHP. so there is a contradiction. however, your point of saying that (moral:it's going to cost more than you think) is very true.
good luck whatever you decide!
good luck whatever you decide!
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
From: Ocala, Florida
Can anyone tell me why the front mount intercooler from EPP is better than the twin high flow intercoolers? I am assuming more cooling area, but I remember with my 3rd gen, trying to get the twin intercoolers from ATI, but they wouldn't offer it. I know the standard 3-core caused some cooling problems, because it blocked the radiator. Not sure if this is still the case with 4th gens?
Can anyone tell me why the front mount intercooler from EPP is better than the twin high flow intercoolers? I am assuming more cooling area, but I remember with my 3rd gen, trying to get the twin intercoolers from ATI, but they wouldn't offer it. I know the standard 3-core caused some cooling problems, because it blocked the radiator. Not sure if this is still the case with 4th gens?
Jon
__________________
95 Pontiac Formula- Stock engine with ATI Procharger, Moser 12 bolt w/4:30 gears, Rossler trans, Neil Chance 4000 stall, M/T ET streets, 10.914@ 121.90mph, 1.452 60ft. GMHTP November 2010 Feature Car. Check it out at:
https://www.motortrend.com/features/...ebird-formula/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abZ1z...ature=youtu.be
95 Pontiac Formula- Stock engine with ATI Procharger, Moser 12 bolt w/4:30 gears, Rossler trans, Neil Chance 4000 stall, M/T ET streets, 10.914@ 121.90mph, 1.452 60ft. GMHTP November 2010 Feature Car. Check it out at:
https://www.motortrend.com/features/...ebird-formula/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abZ1z...ature=youtu.be
Can anyone tell me why the front mount intercooler from EPP is better than the twin high flow intercoolers? I am assuming more cooling area, but I remember with my 3rd gen, trying to get the twin intercoolers from ATI, but they wouldn't offer it. I know the standard 3-core caused some cooling problems, because it blocked the radiator. Not sure if this is still the case with 4th gens?
I agree with the comments about building the engine, however I don't have the funds for both. I was hoping to add the boost, but be very modest with it for the present. When it is time to bump up the power, the first thing would be to build a bottom end to handle it. I am not sure at this point, whether it would be a 6.0 liter block or stay with the LS1.
I have the front mount intercooler option here in place of the twin intercoolers. Bob
http://www.exoticperformanceplus.com....html?item=798
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BOSS APPROVED! I hard to not get a Procharger. Order it today, and in a few days you will be putting 500 rwhp around your town. I have no experience with the turbo companies but I know that for now and the future it will only be Procharger for me.
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
From: Ocala, Florida
I could drive up, get the ProCharger installed (with the front mount intercooler) for around $9K. That would leave enough for a clutch and suspension goodies..... I wish I could afford the Moser 9"
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
From: Ocala, Florida
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
From: Ocala, Florida
The APS kit is awesome though too. Anyone on the board have this kit installed and want to share any experience?
More money up front than the ProCharger, I am trying to write up a Pro's & Con's list!!
More money up front than the ProCharger, I am trying to write up a Pro's & Con's list!!
I don't think the intercooler can be cooled from the bottom only. Unless you mount the intercooler facing down. Which some have done. Once you change to the FMIC there is no need for the Procharger plenum because the plenum has 2 inlets (because of the small twin Procharger intercoolers) and the outlet to the throttle body. All you would need with the FMIC is 1 pipe from the intercooler outlet to the throttle body.
Hope this makes sense.
Hope this makes sense.
Hey All,
I have been going over the options with Rick and there is always a lot of help here. It is generally a toss up between the two as well as pros and cons to both. The plan is to run 6-7 PSI either way to keep the engine safe for now.
With the APS you can not deny the quality and fit, but the pricing, though very good compared to the corvette kits, is higher. Understood with the components used.
On the Procharger, it is a proven system and the EPP front mount is cool. The issue I have with a Procharger when going for more power is head unit bracket flex and belt slip. I have added an extra idler pulley as well as support brackets which help a lot. If you go to a larger belt width then adding a larger radiator is not an option without fabbing. I have also been able to fab in a set of twin Spal 11" fans and shroud. Of course all of these add ons add to the cost.
This is why I sway towards the APS if possible. More HP to the tires at a given boost level which means less stress on the engine at equal HP levels. If APS was not available then Procharger would be my choice.
Thanks everyone and talk to you soon Rick.
Mike Norris
I have been going over the options with Rick and there is always a lot of help here. It is generally a toss up between the two as well as pros and cons to both. The plan is to run 6-7 PSI either way to keep the engine safe for now.
With the APS you can not deny the quality and fit, but the pricing, though very good compared to the corvette kits, is higher. Understood with the components used.
On the Procharger, it is a proven system and the EPP front mount is cool. The issue I have with a Procharger when going for more power is head unit bracket flex and belt slip. I have added an extra idler pulley as well as support brackets which help a lot. If you go to a larger belt width then adding a larger radiator is not an option without fabbing. I have also been able to fab in a set of twin Spal 11" fans and shroud. Of course all of these add ons add to the cost.
This is why I sway towards the APS if possible. More HP to the tires at a given boost level which means less stress on the engine at equal HP levels. If APS was not available then Procharger would be my choice.
Thanks everyone and talk to you soon Rick.
Mike Norris
No system is completely trouble free, and we have had issues with the APS kits as well. On this Firehawk a turbo seal on one of the water cooled turbos was bad, and filled the crankcase with water.
http://www.exoticperformanceplus.com...Car.php?car=39
Luckily for us we had an electric water pump on the car, and we ran the pump before firing the engine to purge the system of air, and we checked the oil level before firing the engine up. We got very lucky on this one!
We have also had problems with the inlet hoses sucking shut, perhaps APS has this problem resolved now. Bob
http://www.exoticperformanceplus.com...Car.php?car=39
Luckily for us we had an electric water pump on the car, and we ran the pump before firing the engine to purge the system of air, and we checked the oil level before firing the engine up. We got very lucky on this one!
We have also had problems with the inlet hoses sucking shut, perhaps APS has this problem resolved now. Bob
"No system is completely trouble free, and we have had issues with the APS kits as well. On this Firehawk a turbo seal on one of the water cooled turbos was bad, and filled the crankcase with water.
http://www.exoticperformanceplus.com...Car.php?car=39
Luckily for us we had an electric water pump on the car, and we ran the pump before firing the engine to purge the system of air, and we checked the oil level before firing the engine up. We got very lucky on this one!
We have also had problems with the inlet hoses sucking shut, perhaps APS has this problem resolved now. Bob"
Thanks for the heads up on what you have seen Bob. Knock wood there have been no such issues ith what I have seen, but I will keep an eye out for sure.
Mike Norris
http://www.exoticperformanceplus.com...Car.php?car=39
Luckily for us we had an electric water pump on the car, and we ran the pump before firing the engine to purge the system of air, and we checked the oil level before firing the engine up. We got very lucky on this one!
We have also had problems with the inlet hoses sucking shut, perhaps APS has this problem resolved now. Bob"
Thanks for the heads up on what you have seen Bob. Knock wood there have been no such issues ith what I have seen, but I will keep an eye out for sure.
Mike Norris
8 sec potential, 12 sec slip
iTrader: (50)
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 4,092
Likes: 2
From: Savannah, GA
I'd say get a forged shortblock with some 6.0L heads to lower compression. This should cost you around 3500. Then sell your stock longblock and recoup some money. Once you break your engine, you won't be able to get much at all by reselling any of the parts. But you can easily get $1000 AT LEAST from your stock longblock. That drops the net cost of the forged engine to 2500. So that leaves you with 8500. Now you can buy that D1 kit and have some money left over to do at least a clutch and a few suspension mods for now and save a little more for when your 10 bolt breaks. As long as you don't put sticky tires on it, you can drive on the 10 bolt for a while until you save for a 9" or 12 bolt. .02
I'd say get a forged shortblock with some 6.0L heads to lower compression. This should cost you around 3500. Then sell your stock longblock and recoup some money. Once you break your engine, you won't be able to get much at all by reselling any of the parts. But you can easily get $1000 AT LEAST from your stock longblock. That drops the net cost of the forged engine to 2500. So that leaves you with 8500. Now you can buy that D1 kit and have some money left over to do at least a clutch and a few suspension mods for now and save a little more for when your 10 bolt breaks. As long as you don't put sticky tires on it, you can drive on the 10 bolt for a while until you save for a 9" or 12 bolt. .02