T76 60# mototrons at fault?
06-16-2008, 07:12 PM
#21
Yes. TurboBobs LTCC kit now uses the stock LS1 harness. As long as you put the harness on there the same way as a stock LS1 (which I did) and just the 2-4-6-8 harness on the passenger side and the 1-3-5-7 harness on the drivers side, you're good to go. You did give me home for a second there. I thought, "What if Bob miswired the harness and reversed the 1 and 5 ?! So I went into the garage, swapped those two coils plug wires and fired it up. Lol... it runs EXACLY THE SAME! I think I could just disconnect those coils and it wouldn't even notice. They are just along for the ride I guess. Because it's a new engine, I haven't suspected the compression but I guess that's coming up. Wouldn't a low cylinder STILL fire? Man, I'm bumming here...
06-17-2008, 06:55 AM
#24
"Used Mototrons".
How about some info on them.
How long since they were taken out of the previous engine?
How were they stored?
Were they cleaned and flow checked prior to you using them?
The reason behind these ?? is: I clean and flow test injs, and FREQUENTLY get sets that exhibit the same problems you are having. They have dried fuel in them, and are stuck shut. Some are so bad they go in the trash. Some I can resurrect.
Last week, got a set that had been out of the engine for 6 weeks...They were run in the flow bench for over 30 secs, before they would even pulse! [Had been in open air for that period of time.]
My "guess" is U have at least 1 stuck inj.....
When storing injs, it's a help to:
1. Shake out the old fuel.
2. Add a few drops of 3 in 1 oil.
3. Cap off the inlet.
4. Store in a sealed ziploc bag.
And, a noid lite is a good tool box item. At least you can check the operation of the harness...
How about some info on them.
How long since they were taken out of the previous engine?
How were they stored?
Were they cleaned and flow checked prior to you using them?
The reason behind these ?? is: I clean and flow test injs, and FREQUENTLY get sets that exhibit the same problems you are having. They have dried fuel in them, and are stuck shut. Some are so bad they go in the trash. Some I can resurrect.
Last week, got a set that had been out of the engine for 6 weeks...They were run in the flow bench for over 30 secs, before they would even pulse! [Had been in open air for that period of time.]
My "guess" is U have at least 1 stuck inj.....
When storing injs, it's a help to:
1. Shake out the old fuel.
2. Add a few drops of 3 in 1 oil.
3. Cap off the inlet.
4. Store in a sealed ziploc bag.
And, a noid lite is a good tool box item. At least you can check the operation of the harness...
06-17-2008, 06:34 PM
#25
Looks like I may have isolated it. TurboBobs LTCC has a couple of LED's inside the housing for the processor. I'd PM'd Bob last night asking if he had any idea if the LTCC could play a role in this. He asked me to pull off the cover of the box and look at the LED's.
Upon "KEY ON", they go thru a bulb test and flash once. Then, when you crank, the green LEN *should* illuminate and stay on. Mine does. The red LED is for diagnostics. Here's what the .pdf file just told me....
Red LED flashes once = Cylinder Decode sequence error.
Red LED flashes twice = Wrong number of Hi Res Pulses counted between Lo-Res Rising edges.
Red LED flashes Three times = Wrong number of Hi Res Pulses counted during a High Lo-Res pulse or a Low Lo-Res Pulse.
Red LED flashes four times = EST (Electronic Spark Control) signal from PCM = missed pulse. Check connection to white wire.
Mine is flashing 3 times.
I've sent a PM to TurboBob to see if this means its wiring or time for a new OPTI.
Upon "KEY ON", they go thru a bulb test and flash once. Then, when you crank, the green LEN *should* illuminate and stay on. Mine does. The red LED is for diagnostics. Here's what the .pdf file just told me....
Red LED flashes once = Cylinder Decode sequence error.
Red LED flashes twice = Wrong number of Hi Res Pulses counted between Lo-Res Rising edges.
Red LED flashes Three times = Wrong number of Hi Res Pulses counted during a High Lo-Res pulse or a Low Lo-Res Pulse.
Red LED flashes four times = EST (Electronic Spark Control) signal from PCM = missed pulse. Check connection to white wire.
Mine is flashing 3 times.
I've sent a PM to TurboBob to see if this means its wiring or time for a new OPTI.
06-18-2008, 06:44 AM
#27
After verifying the injs, the Opti would be my "next stop"...[Only because the injs are used, would they be first]
However, the diagnostics on the ign, seem to be pointing elsewhere....
My bud's opti was all new MSD components. [Turbo application, 96 F body]. 1 shake down pass.. engine missing, running poorly.
As I recall, when he took the opti off, it rattled! Loose pieces in it..
However, the diagnostics on the ign, seem to be pointing elsewhere....
My bud's opti was all new MSD components. [Turbo application, 96 F body]. 1 shake down pass.. engine missing, running poorly.
As I recall, when he took the opti off, it rattled! Loose pieces in it..
06-18-2008, 06:53 AM
#28
After verifying the injs, the Opti would be my "next stop"...[Only because the injs are used, would they be first]
However, the diagnostics on the ign, seem to be pointing elsewhere....
My bud's opti was all new MSD components. [Turbo application, 96 F body]. 1 shake down pass.. engine missing, running poorly.
As I recall, when he took the opti off, it rattled! Loose pieces in it..
However, the diagnostics on the ign, seem to be pointing elsewhere....
My bud's opti was all new MSD components. [Turbo application, 96 F body]. 1 shake down pass.. engine missing, running poorly.
As I recall, when he took the opti off, it rattled! Loose pieces in it..
06-20-2008, 12:26 AM
#29
Well.... over nighted the Opti and a new Opti Pigtail and it was here to greet me when I came home from work. Tested them before installing it by just hooking up the harness to the new one, turned on the key, spun the opti. The red blinking light on the LTCC was gone and I could hear the spark plugs sparking. Cool ... So I installed it. Then swapped the injectors back to the mototrons. Reflashed the PCM with Bryans tune and fired it up.
IT RUNS THE SAME G*D DAMNED WAY AS IT HAD!!!! Running on 6 cylinders at the most.
UNbelievable! This is so sad it's funny.
I tried relashing it with the timing advanced 2 degrees across the board since it starts so weakly. Doesn't matter.
Ill get a timing light tomorrow and see it that reveals anything.
The scanner says it's got 32 degrees at 850 rpm now. It did say 30 before I added the extra timing.
I've gone on to Google looking for symptoms of cams degreed incorrectly (retarded too many degrees) The symptoms I'm seeing sure look familiar
I'm probably going to just pull the timing cover off and install it straight up. I sent an email to my engine builder and he said it used the '2 degree' slot on the crank sprocket but he can't recall now if it was 2 degrees advanced or 2 degrees retarded.
IT RUNS THE SAME G*D DAMNED WAY AS IT HAD!!!! Running on 6 cylinders at the most.
UNbelievable! This is so sad it's funny.
I tried relashing it with the timing advanced 2 degrees across the board since it starts so weakly. Doesn't matter.
Ill get a timing light tomorrow and see it that reveals anything.
The scanner says it's got 32 degrees at 850 rpm now. It did say 30 before I added the extra timing.
I've gone on to Google looking for symptoms of cams degreed incorrectly (retarded too many degrees) The symptoms I'm seeing sure look familiar
I'm probably going to just pull the timing cover off and install it straight up. I sent an email to my engine builder and he said it used the '2 degree' slot on the crank sprocket but he can't recall now if it was 2 degrees advanced or 2 degrees retarded.
06-20-2008, 06:54 AM
#30
My $.02.. Like I said:"After verifying the injs, the Opti would be my "next stop"...[Only because the injs are used, would they be first]"
I don't think that the problem is being caused by the cam being degreed 2*, 1 way, or the other.[Overall performance, yes... a miss, no.]
IF you have a miss, it's something else, unless the cam is flat, a broken spring, or the cam is so far off, you have bent some valves.
I'd surely be looking at the injs next, B4 I pulled the ft cover off.
Used injs are like "used girl friends". Some are great, some not!
I don't think that the problem is being caused by the cam being degreed 2*, 1 way, or the other.[Overall performance, yes... a miss, no.]
IF you have a miss, it's something else, unless the cam is flat, a broken spring, or the cam is so far off, you have bent some valves.
I'd surely be looking at the injs next, B4 I pulled the ft cover off.
Used injs are like "used girl friends". Some are great, some not!
06-20-2008, 01:04 PM
#31
I'd already swapped the injectors to a completely different set. It ran the same with them as it had before. I'd thought about the bent valves but I've done a compression test and that was fine. I have dished pistons for the turbo so perhaps that keeps the valves away. Thanks for the advice 
06-20-2008, 02:00 PM
#32
"So I installed it. Then swapped the injectors back to the mototrons. Reflashed the PCM with Bryans tune and fired it up".
This statement is what led me to think injs....
You said you had the "red led" diagnostic code, and had fixed it w/ the new Opti.
Did you restart the engine w/ the new Opti, and the other injs, or install the Motos prior to restart?
If not, you've still not eliminated the injs.....
This statement is what led me to think injs....
You said you had the "red led" diagnostic code, and had fixed it w/ the new Opti.
Did you restart the engine w/ the new Opti, and the other injs, or install the Motos prior to restart?
If not, you've still not eliminated the injs.....
06-20-2008, 03:22 PM
#33
I tried it both with the 28# and the mototrons. In fact, everything I've changed individually, afterwards I start the engine and it runs EXACTLY the way it did before. No better, no worse. That's what makes me think it is something 'static' like a Cam install or the PCM.
06-26-2008, 11:30 PM
#34
Update. After reading SEVERAL accounts where people reported a timing set off a tooth could make a car run like mine has been, I pulled the timing cover off and had a look. I must mention that this engine has a custom and expensive turbo cam spec'd out by Bret Bauer and that it had specific information for degreeing the cam. When I provided all the information to my engine builder (gave him the cam card) he went after it and afterwards, stated he had to move it 2 degrees ( I don't remember now if it was 2 deg advance or 2 degrees retarded) to get the Intake Center Line method to line up. I thought, "Great! He's thorough!". Well, after all the stuff I've replaced and checked, I decided it HAD to be the cam phasing so I pulled off the timing cover. Only to see it's dot to dot. WTF?.... Add to that, the timing cover bolts were all finger tight. Now it looks like I've got to get a degree kit and check it out for sure myself.
06-27-2008, 07:34 AM
#35
unless you have an adjustable timing set there isnt anything you are gonna be able to do to get 2*. normally if it needs to be like that it will be 'ground in' unless you plan on adjusting it later (w/ adjustable timing set)
ask the cam guy for more info
if you are that far in, just put the stock cam or a cam you know works back in. you can make plenty of power with a stock cam. i did it.
ask the cam guy for more info
if you are that far in, just put the stock cam or a cam you know works back in. you can make plenty of power with a stock cam. i did it.
06-27-2008, 09:11 AM
#36
This is the comp cams timing set with 3 keyways cut into the crank sprocket. 2 advanced, straight up and 2 degrees retarded. He specifically told me he had to resort to 2 degrees off from straight up to get the ICL set just right. The cam Bret designed has 4 degrees ground into it.
unless you have an adjustable timing set there isnt anything you are gonna be able to do to get 2*. normally if it needs to be like that it will be 'ground in' unless you plan on adjusting it later (w/ adjustable timing set)
ask the cam guy for more info
if you are that far in, just put the stock cam or a cam you know works back in. you can make plenty of power with a stock cam. i did it.
ask the cam guy for more info
if you are that far in, just put the stock cam or a cam you know works back in. you can make plenty of power with a stock cam. i did it.
06-28-2008, 09:43 AM
#39
Found my cam specs. Going to pick up the cam degree kit plus the nut you put on the crank to turn it over. I have to wait till about noon today to meet the guy (Fbody Buddy of course! The best guys/girls on the planet!) to pick up his kit, accessories. I did a little more research (prompted by fellow LS1Tech'r Chuck Norton. Thanks Chuck!) and found that not only did my engine builder not adv/retard the cam 2 degrees as he'd stated, the timing set (CLO-9-3145) doesn't even have a provision for just 2 degrees. It has 3 keyways. 4 degrees Advanced, "Standard/Dot-to-Dot" and 4 degrees Retarded. (For those in Rio Linda, that means you can't *just* add/subtract 2 degrees with this timing set). Something stinks here (and it's not just that shirt I've been wearing while under the car) Using the ICL (Intake CenterLine method) the cam should show a 112 ICL if it's degreed properly.
