Innovate Wideband tool
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TECH Apprentice
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 357
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From: Anch., Alaska
Innovate Wideband tool Ok got the wideband today. It has a big fat cable to go to it's 02 sensor that it comes with. I ran it up between the door and front fender, istead of punching another hole in my firewall, since this is short time -use basis, then it comes out.
I got the new sensor in, hooked it up, took the sensor back out, to calibrate it thru the meter box.
I was running 9.5 A/F in PE :\ which as you know is pretty rich.
After 15 minutes, the box showed an error code, sensor timing error 08.
I called Innovate Motorsports and talked to a gentleman named Klaus. He said the stock rear 02 hole that I was using is pretty hot, but they are coming out with an update for the firmware in the box(downloadable on their site) this week, that will allow the sensor to run hotter without setting errors.
The box will work again after the truck cools, and the sensor cools again.
The pain in the *** is, the sensor has to come out when you are not using the box, or it will burn up, not being on and hooked to the box all the time. So when I use it, I have to get under and take the sensor out, and put the stock one back in.
After modifying my tune twice, I now have it at 11.5 or real close thru the rpms till it hits about 5000, then starts going to about 11.0.
So I have it real close already
Worth the $350 just for that!
My PE is at 40 or 45% TPS(exactly when I see boost), and I have slightly negative Ltrims
Thought I would give everyone a heads up on it. Sam
--------------------
2000 5.3 auto 4wd ext
I got the new sensor in, hooked it up, took the sensor back out, to calibrate it thru the meter box.
I was running 9.5 A/F in PE :\ which as you know is pretty rich.
After 15 minutes, the box showed an error code, sensor timing error 08.
I called Innovate Motorsports and talked to a gentleman named Klaus. He said the stock rear 02 hole that I was using is pretty hot, but they are coming out with an update for the firmware in the box(downloadable on their site) this week, that will allow the sensor to run hotter without setting errors.
The box will work again after the truck cools, and the sensor cools again.
The pain in the *** is, the sensor has to come out when you are not using the box, or it will burn up, not being on and hooked to the box all the time. So when I use it, I have to get under and take the sensor out, and put the stock one back in.
After modifying my tune twice, I now have it at 11.5 or real close thru the rpms till it hits about 5000, then starts going to about 11.0.
So I have it real close already
Worth the $350 just for that!
My PE is at 40 or 45% TPS(exactly when I see boost), and I have slightly negative Ltrims
Thought I would give everyone a heads up on it. Sam
--------------------
2000 5.3 auto 4wd ext
Re: Innovate Wideband tool Thanks for the info !
The pain in the *** is, the sensor has to come out when you are not using the box, or it will burn up, not being on and hooked to the box all the time. So when I use it, I have to get under and take the sensor out, and put the stock one back in.
Please explain. What do you mean by the box ? How often would it need to be calibrated ? Taking it in and out would be a real pain for us f-body guys.....Anyway to keep it in ? 
I was thinking of installing a 3rd bung for the wideband in the exhaust further downstream (maybe in the hump over the axle ?) Thinking outloud here..
'J
The pain in the *** is, the sensor has to come out when you are not using the box, or it will burn up, not being on and hooked to the box all the time. So when I use it, I have to get under and take the sensor out, and put the stock one back in.
I was thinking of installing a 3rd bung for the wideband in the exhaust further downstream (maybe in the hump over the axle ?) Thinking outloud here..'J
Thread Starter
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 357
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From: Anch., Alaska
Re: Innovate Wideband tool The box is the Innovate wideband unit-kinda like a HPPIII box
Actually downstream in the exhaust would be better. If you think about how a dyno wideband works, this is actually a truer reading, as it gets less air mixture around the sensor.
The calibration takes place before you install the sensor. You just hook everything up, then turn it on and hit the calibrate button. I don't know how often it needs to be done. If you had a way to wire the sensor to heat up when you are running, I think that would be ok, but I don't know that much about it.
BTW it comes with an extra bung, and threaded hole, with a matching plug so you can do exactly what you are saying.
IMO though, you arent going to be doing a wideband all the time anyway, so just put it in when you are going to tune. They are offering a permanent mount box soon, so maybe look into that?
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com
If I can get the updated firmware to work properly, this is a great tool!!
Even if I can't it is still a great tool, cause I can't get a wb done up here.
Pretty sweet that I got it almost dialed on AF in only two tunes
Sam
Actually downstream in the exhaust would be better. If you think about how a dyno wideband works, this is actually a truer reading, as it gets less air mixture around the sensor.
The calibration takes place before you install the sensor. You just hook everything up, then turn it on and hit the calibrate button. I don't know how often it needs to be done. If you had a way to wire the sensor to heat up when you are running, I think that would be ok, but I don't know that much about it.
BTW it comes with an extra bung, and threaded hole, with a matching plug so you can do exactly what you are saying.
IMO though, you arent going to be doing a wideband all the time anyway, so just put it in when you are going to tune. They are offering a permanent mount box soon, so maybe look into that?
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com
If I can get the updated firmware to work properly, this is a great tool!!
Even if I can't it is still a great tool, cause I can't get a wb done up here.
Pretty sweet that I got it almost dialed on AF in only two tunes
Sam 
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Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Las Cruces, NM
Re: Innovate Wideband tool A wideband o2 sensor has to be run before the cats otherwise its not accurate. Running a tail pipe sensor on the wideband is a joke, the cats interfere with accuracy.
You should only have power to the wideband o2 sensor with the engine one, otherwise you burn it up. It should be wired so thats it only has power while the engine is on. Strange that they would want you to calibrate out of the car, they must not have implemented the pressure compensated feature that is available with the Bosch sensor.
Gary
You should only have power to the wideband o2 sensor with the engine one, otherwise you burn it up. It should be wired so thats it only has power while the engine is on. Strange that they would want you to calibrate out of the car, they must not have implemented the pressure compensated feature that is available with the Bosch sensor.
Gary
Thread Starter
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Dec 2001
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From: Anch., Alaska
Re: Innovate Wideband tool So almost every single wideband done is not accurate is what you are saying.
I would agree that the tailpipe sensor would be the least accurate, but that is what most dyno shops use, correct?
You really think the sensor would survive the heat of the exhaust gas before the cats?
In any event, this tool is much better than using 02's to tune
You are correct about the sensor having to have power to be hooked up, and ran, according to the techs at Innovate. Sam
I would agree that the tailpipe sensor would be the least accurate, but that is what most dyno shops use, correct?
You really think the sensor would survive the heat of the exhaust gas before the cats?
In any event, this tool is much better than using 02's to tune
You are correct about the sensor having to have power to be hooked up, and ran, according to the techs at Innovate. Sam
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From: Las Cruces, NM
Re: Innovate Wideband tool If you do a search you find that most people agree that tailpipe wideband o2 sensor are not accurate. Also if you look at the setup information for FJO, techedge, FAST, etc. They will say that the wideband o2 sensor should be with 24" of the header/exhaust manifold flange (i.e heads) and before the cats. The only exception would be if you are turbo charged. Then the wideband o2 sensor should be after the turbocharger because it creates a huge back pressure. The only exception of putting the wideband o2 sensor before the turbo would be if the wideband setup supports pressure compensation. The new techedge setup (don't think it is released) does.
Gary
Gary
Re: Innovate Wideband tool I see.... So what is the dyno tuners' response to this ? Not trying to start anything, but I am curious... Is it just that it is MOST accurate in the collector ? I did not think of the cat thing, but it does make sense. I have an ORY in my car, so best spot to put a single sensor (like this setup) would be shortly after the Y conection ? Then rig up a switch to turn it on and off ? I would assume the tune would vary on altitude, atmosphere conditions, fuel etc, so periodicly monitoring wideband o2 would be one of the reasons I would by such a product. Ideas ?
'J
98 TA
6l iron block
8.5:1
FI plans, but what ?
'J
98 TA
6l iron block
8.5:1
FI plans, but what ?
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From: Deep in the seedy underworld of Koonerville
Re: Innovate Wideband tool I've heard both sides of this. I've talked with people who have tested in car widebands against tailpipe widebands and got nearly identical numbers from both. That to me is real world proof that a tailpipe sensor isn't as bad as it's made out to be and that sensor readings are not affected by cats very much at all. I can see the tailpipe sensor becoming a problem if your exhaust is not tight or has a hole in it somewhere though.
Right now I'm running mine in the rear O2 hole but, I am going to hook it up in the front sensor hole for a run or two and check and see if there is any difference. If not it's going back in the rear.
It seems everybody has a different thought or experience with this.
Right now I'm running mine in the rear O2 hole but, I am going to hook it up in the front sensor hole for a run or two and check and see if there is any difference. If not it's going back in the rear.
It seems everybody has a different thought or experience with this.
Thread Starter
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From: Anch., Alaska
Re: Innovate Wideband tool XLR8, are you running a FJO? Is it running all the time?
LIke I said, this is way better than trying to use 02's to tune. Even if it is off a little tiny bit.
From the guys that I have read testing it, the meter has only been off like .1 comaperd to a dyno wb.
My truck really likes the good mixture, and the COOL weather
Last night it exhibited MUCH more power in the cool weather. Sam
LIke I said, this is way better than trying to use 02's to tune. Even if it is off a little tiny bit.
From the guys that I have read testing it, the meter has only been off like .1 comaperd to a dyno wb.
My truck really likes the good mixture, and the COOL weather
Last night it exhibited MUCH more power in the cool weather. Sam
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Re: Innovate Wideband tool I have the techedge 1.5 unit. I have the control box wired up to come on with the ignition through a auxillary fuse box(Painless wiring) The sensor gets it's power from the control box so it is only on when the engine is running. Right now it runs whenever the engine is running but, I might wire up a On/Off switch because I love to stare at the display panel and go WOT. That's bad for gas mileage.
I'm glad you got your truck running good Sam. Now with your own wideband you don't have to worry about those knuckleheads at the dyno shop to get things tuned in.
Cool weather and Blowers ROCK!!
The sensor gets it's power from the control box so it is only on when the engine is running. Right now it runs whenever the engine is running but, I might wire up a On/Off switch because I love to stare at the display panel and go WOT. That's bad for gas mileage. I'm glad you got your truck running good Sam. Now with your own wideband you don't have to worry about those knuckleheads at the dyno shop to get things tuned in.
Cool weather and Blowers ROCK!!
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From: Austin, TX
Re: Innovate Wideband tool You need to have the controller on and hooked up whenever the sensor is in the exhaust stream. If not, the sensing element will be destroyed.
I have an onboard tech edge with the sensor mounted in the passenger side LT header collector. I have cats on the car and have put the dyno wideband back in the tailpipe several times. The readings are always within .2 of each other.
I have an onboard tech edge with the sensor mounted in the passenger side LT header collector. I have cats on the car and have put the dyno wideband back in the tailpipe several times. The readings are always within .2 of each other.
Re: Innovate Wideband tool Ditto here.
I don't know where this "tailpipe widebands are inaccurate" kick got started, but in all of the dealings that I have ever had with onboard widebands and shop tailpipe widebands, the readings are always nearly identical.
I don't know where this "tailpipe widebands are inaccurate" kick got started, but in all of the dealings that I have ever had with onboard widebands and shop tailpipe widebands, the readings are always nearly identical.
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From: Las Cruces, NM
Re: Innovate Wideband tool I stand corrected on the tail pipe setup not being accurate. All the data I have seen, they were more than 1 point difference. I have the FJO setup in my car, works good. The only issue so far is getting an rpm signal with the direct wire to the pcm or tach. I could not get it to work and finally used the clamp rpm pikcup onto plug wires.
Gary
Gary
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Re: Innovate Wideband tool
I don't know where this "tailpipe widebands are inaccurate" kick got started
and I'm not talking about you Gary. 