stand alone e85 setup
stand alone e85 setup basically what the title says
im going to be finishing up my turbo setup here soon and been thinking about a stand alone e85 setup ie separate 5 gallon tank fuels lines and pumps and etc
now im sure many will ask why the hassle, well there is only 1 e85 station in my area and its 50 miles away, so i would like to run regular pump gas for my low boost tune (80% of driving) and the have the high boost tune with e85 and it would be nice to be able to switch it over with ease
now i already have hptuners so switching the tunes is no issue and i figured i could make the fuel switch over with a series of check valves and relays for the pumps
i would like input on this or maybe somebody has already done it (which would be great) also i would like recommendation on what lines(size and type) pumps and etc
thanks guys i anticipate you insight
im going to be finishing up my turbo setup here soon and been thinking about a stand alone e85 setup ie separate 5 gallon tank fuels lines and pumps and etc
now im sure many will ask why the hassle, well there is only 1 e85 station in my area and its 50 miles away, so i would like to run regular pump gas for my low boost tune (80% of driving) and the have the high boost tune with e85 and it would be nice to be able to switch it over with ease
now i already have hptuners so switching the tunes is no issue and i figured i could make the fuel switch over with a series of check valves and relays for the pumps
i would like input on this or maybe somebody has already done it (which would be great) also i would like recommendation on what lines(size and type) pumps and etc
thanks guys i anticipate you insight
TECH Regular
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 448
Likes: 0
what kind of power are you looking to make. I could be do able at a reasonable power level.
I have considered this as well. If you run a 2 tune ecu (like the one you can get from steve williams at tuned by frost). you could program 2 tune at the flip of a switch so you would need to carry your laptop around. However seeing how you would need to keep the power level some what close so you could control the injector, as e85 uses 25% more fuel.
The other thing I considered was 2 completely separate fuel systems. With the injectors being a large issue, how about 16 injector 8 for 93 8 for e85. Problem is its just not cost effective. Its just much easier to build a killer 93 set up. If you just want more power run meth and turn up the boost. If you already have done that than I would look to some other upgrade.
I have considered this as well. If you run a 2 tune ecu (like the one you can get from steve williams at tuned by frost). you could program 2 tune at the flip of a switch so you would need to carry your laptop around. However seeing how you would need to keep the power level some what close so you could control the injector, as e85 uses 25% more fuel.
The other thing I considered was 2 completely separate fuel systems. With the injectors being a large issue, how about 16 injector 8 for 93 8 for e85. Problem is its just not cost effective. Its just much easier to build a killer 93 set up. If you just want more power run meth and turn up the boost. If you already have done that than I would look to some other upgrade.
what kind of power are you looking to make. I could be do able at a reasonable power level.
I have considered this as well. If you run a 2 tune ecu (like the one you can get from steve williams at tuned by frost). you could program 2 tune at the flip of a switch so you would need to carry your laptop around. However seeing how you would need to keep the power level some what close so you could control the injector, as e85 uses 25% more fuel.
The other thing I considered was 2 completely separate fuel systems. With the injectors being a large issue, how about 16 injector 8 for 93 8 for e85. Problem is its just not cost effective. Its just much easier to build a killer 93 set up. If you just want more power run meth and turn up the boost. If you already have done that than I would look to some other upgrade.
I have considered this as well. If you run a 2 tune ecu (like the one you can get from steve williams at tuned by frost). you could program 2 tune at the flip of a switch so you would need to carry your laptop around. However seeing how you would need to keep the power level some what close so you could control the injector, as e85 uses 25% more fuel.
The other thing I considered was 2 completely separate fuel systems. With the injectors being a large issue, how about 16 injector 8 for 93 8 for e85. Problem is its just not cost effective. Its just much easier to build a killer 93 set up. If you just want more power run meth and turn up the boost. If you already have done that than I would look to some other upgrade.
ie no need for more injectors
ill post a diagram in a minute
TECH Regular
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 448
Likes: 0
I understand. Im not saying its not possible it just wont be as easy as it seems. Im normally an optimist. What bout the time it takes to transfer the fuel in the rails. I guess if your gonna flash the computer that will erase the codes, maybe you could make it work. I talk to a good tuner. They will give you some in site that you didnt think of, due to their trials with e85
TECH Regular
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 448
Likes: 0
My tuner told me you would never be able to get them to idle right at that power level. You need to flow 30% more fuel to make the same power, and be able to close them down to idle and on decel.
P.S. The last should of said I would talk to a good tuner.
P.S. The last should of said I would talk to a good tuner.
why would i never get it to idle right? i would have to complete separate tunes two completely separate fuel pumps and ect only thing it would share is the fuel rails and injectors which as long as i buy big enough for e85 needs then they can work with pump tune with tuning
here a rough diagram
here a rough diagram
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also i have tuned myself quite a bit and i see no reason that it would not work
my only concern would be the fuel left in the lines after the pump switch but as long as i dont go wot within say 1 minute or two i cant see it damaging anything
i also could calculate the time it takes for the fuel from the check valves to run out and and then use that calculation to wait after i switch the pumps then switch to the other tune
my only concern would be the fuel left in the lines after the pump switch but as long as i dont go wot within say 1 minute or two i cant see it damaging anything
i also could calculate the time it takes for the fuel from the check valves to run out and and then use that calculation to wait after i switch the pumps then switch to the other tune
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Verdad Gallardo also i would like input on where to add this extra e85 tank
i was thinking in the trunk where the ttops go but i dont feel very comfortable having a gas(e85) tank in the car
i was thinking in the trunk where the ttops go but i dont feel very comfortable having a gas(e85) tank in the car
TECH Regular
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 448
Likes: 0
I dont think you have a choice for fuel tank location. You could try to ditch the mufflers but thats a risky spot for collision. You may be able to utilize the space in the quarters or to the left and right of the t-tops and have a piggy back set up. You would need custom shaped tanks of course, you could even make some steal panels to encapsulate the tanks so they was some kind of divider from you and the fuel. I have been in the back of one in a while so maybe the the second choice is not an option. Especially if you have a disc changer.
The dual fuel system has been done before & was posted on this site at one time.
What you will have problems with is the injectors. To get enough fuel on E85the injectors will likely be too large for reasonable idle quality on gasoline.
What you will have problems with is the injectors. To get enough fuel on E85the injectors will likely be too large for reasonable idle quality on gasoline.
well i was hoping to do 100# injectors but after some research it looks like ill probably need at least 120# is it unreasonable to make these idle ? especially if im running a boost referenced fpr?
also what am i looking at as a pump to keep up with this? it obviously will not be a in tank pump
also what am i looking at as a pump to keep up with this? it obviously will not be a in tank pump
TECH Regular
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 448
Likes: 0
Most guys are running -8 feed -10 return. That should be enough to carry you to 1000 fwhp. Im running the aeromotive RR bypass regulator (boost referenced) Running twin in tank walbro 340's you will need 3 for 1000hp. Seems a lot of guys run the aeromotive a1000
Yeah, I don't see how you'd do this either soley due to the injector sizes. Normal fuel, too small for E85. E85, too big for normal fuel.
Only way I could see it happening is parallel fuel rails with injectors going into a Y that goes into the intake holes... Even that seem conceptually implausible due to spray patterns and the y putting the injector tips at a weird disadvantaged position...
Only way I could see it happening is parallel fuel rails with injectors going into a Y that goes into the intake holes... Even that seem conceptually implausible due to spray patterns and the y putting the injector tips at a weird disadvantaged position...
even if you did make it work having all your switches and gadgets to make it happen just adds more and more things that could fail and cost you a motor. I say just do it the right way and run e85 in the tank at all times or stay with pump and race gas
TECH Regular
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 448
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its not impossible. Simple fix. Run a 16 injector manifold. Stand alone setup. You will need to be able to disable to disarm the factory injector lines. I would give the guys at FIC a call and see what they think. They told me they do not have any problems getting 100 lbs injectors closing down for idle qulity.
why would i never get it to idle right? i would have to complete separate tunes two completely separate fuel pumps and ect only thing it would share is the fuel rails and injectors which as long as i buy big enough for e85 needs then they can work with pump tune with tuning
here a rough diagram
Attachment 276699
here a rough diagram
Attachment 276699
2 seperate fuel lines-
2 seperate fuel pumps -
2 off/on switches-
2 different tuned pcm's-
Are you gonna have 2 seperate tanks or 1 with a toggle switch?
Being that you have hptuner, Can you pre-load 2 different tunes on it? confused: if that's the question your asking then.. "yes".
But that would consist of bigger injectors and spark plug changing each time for A1 performance...Dont qoute me I could be wrong but thats my mythology on your "?"
Last edited by LTXBOI; Feb 18, 2011 at 07:38 AM.
