E85
03-05-2013, 09:44 PM
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E85 Ok I understand that e85 burns cleaner but I see a lot of turbo cars with e85 How is e85 improving performance and does it improve performance in all motor/nitrous cars?
03-05-2013, 11:08 PM
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basically the reason why you see and hear of a lot of guys running e85 is because it does have some advantages. One being price...for the octane level a true e85 blend is your around 107 octane...obviously this may vary place to play but e85 runs a lot cooler as well allowing to run more boost and more timing. It's essentially the "poor mans race fuel" lol but the way fuel prices keep going up nothings cheap. One big thing that you might of heard about is the fact that your consuming about 20-30% more fuel with e85.
03-06-2013, 04:27 PM
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also forgot to mention that with e85 you can run a lot more compression. Typically say if you had a 9:1 compression motor especially on the street and depending on the size of the turbo of course, you would lag more before you got into boost...same equation with e85 and say 10:5:1 compression on the street you will have more resonsiveness driving around and that added compression will spool your turbo/turbos a lot faster also. Only thing is depending on how high compression is, the trade of is more compression=less boost you can run where as something like 9:1 compression your able to run more boost....all depends on peoples preference and what you want to do with the car. Theres a lot of variables you want to match up before just simply dumping e85 in. Hope this helps.
03-06-2013, 07:17 PM
#5
e85is basically a marketing name to keep things simple for flex fuel vehicle owners.
depending on the climate you live in and the time of year you can get anything from 70-85% ethanol out of an e85 pump , some have claimed slightly above 85% on summer blends checking with an ethanol meter or with the DIY test tube method (search internet for info its common)
the octane rating on the pump needs to be consistent just like the name of the fuel so the pump should be labeled 105 which is the octane rating for 70% or full winter blend ( all pumps must list MINIMUM octane possible out of that pump) , 85% would be approx 112 octane depending on the quality of the gasoline portion it is being blended with.
e98 race fuel (98% ethanol) is approx 119 octane
the octane rating is deceptive e85 tends to act like its even higher in octane , many builds out there making more power on 85% ethanol than on c16 (116 octane and well over $10 a gallon) a guy on the grand national forum just went 7.9 @175 on $3.35 a gallon e85 direct from a street pump !
it does take approx 30% more fuel delivery capacity if converting to 100% e85 , bigger injectors , pump/pumps/higher flowing filter and lines in some cases. you can blend pump gas/e85 and reduce the extra headroom needed for fuel supply while increasing octane and gaining other benefits of e85.
anyone tha has ever used alcohol like rubbing/isopropyl at work as a cleaner can tell you its cold to the touch and evaporates very quickly , e85 has better latent heat vaporization qualities than gasoline pump fuel or race fuel it will deliver a much colder intake charge.
alcohol fuels have higher oxygen content than gasoline based fuel so they are delivering more oxygen to the charge also not to the extent of a power adder but this is part of the big picture of how people make more power with it
alcohol is a great cleaner vehicles run on e85 will have much less deposits on internals , the negative is gasoline is a very dirty fuel and over time leaves a varnish like residue on everything it touches , inside of fuel tank ,lines ,injectors ,etc... now you introduce alcohol which is a cleaner and it breaks this crap left by years of gasoline use up and can raise havoc with plugging filters , injector screens etc... I worked in the boat business when e10 came around about 5 years ago and it was fine in new/newer boats but raised hell until we got all the crap out of the fuel system on older boats especially carburetors. People blamed the ethanol but the real problem was the residue the gasoline left !
you will also hear about corrosion Methanol is highly corrosive ( wood alcohol) and a lot of what you hear is misconceptions carried over from methanol use .
e85 can allow compression ratios up to around 15 to 1 but it better be 85% and you better have just the right components on place to make that happen , 13/13.5 to 1 should not be a problem.
e98 can run up to around 19 to 1 which is what indy cars have and run on e98 because no gasoline is capable of running this type of compression , flex fuel vehicles are gasoline vehicles that can also run ethanol blends if they built them optimized for ethanol ( high compression/ advanced timing) nobody would want to fill them with gasoline as they would have to detune the heck out of them when running on gas.
you will also see negative press on food vs fuel but that is all due to the US mandating corn be used as a base stock , corn is difficult to break down ( check before you flush lol) brazil uses sugar cane very effectively for instance , anything living that can be fermented can be turned into ethanol , a guy on the e85 forum ran his turbo gto on e85 he made himself using cat tail roots he would ferment/distill for example.
a couple other forums I am on seperated e85sections from fueling and made e85 specific sections which really helped get all the e85 info/discussion in one place (fast fords & modular mustangs and turbo buick/grand national forum)those are very active sctions on those forums and would be a great place to lurk and learn for anyone with interest in e85.
I studied the heck out of it a few years ago but it never got closer than 2 states away from me I am still hopeful it comes here someday as I also own a couple cars of a boosted platform that would benefit greatly from it. What has really changed in these few years is people on performance forums used to debate if it was any good or not now just about any platform out there the fastest cars are running e85 it is a superior fuel in regards to making power
depending on the climate you live in and the time of year you can get anything from 70-85% ethanol out of an e85 pump , some have claimed slightly above 85% on summer blends checking with an ethanol meter or with the DIY test tube method (search internet for info its common)
the octane rating on the pump needs to be consistent just like the name of the fuel so the pump should be labeled 105 which is the octane rating for 70% or full winter blend ( all pumps must list MINIMUM octane possible out of that pump) , 85% would be approx 112 octane depending on the quality of the gasoline portion it is being blended with.
e98 race fuel (98% ethanol) is approx 119 octane
the octane rating is deceptive e85 tends to act like its even higher in octane , many builds out there making more power on 85% ethanol than on c16 (116 octane and well over $10 a gallon) a guy on the grand national forum just went 7.9 @175 on $3.35 a gallon e85 direct from a street pump !
it does take approx 30% more fuel delivery capacity if converting to 100% e85 , bigger injectors , pump/pumps/higher flowing filter and lines in some cases. you can blend pump gas/e85 and reduce the extra headroom needed for fuel supply while increasing octane and gaining other benefits of e85.
anyone tha has ever used alcohol like rubbing/isopropyl at work as a cleaner can tell you its cold to the touch and evaporates very quickly , e85 has better latent heat vaporization qualities than gasoline pump fuel or race fuel it will deliver a much colder intake charge.
alcohol fuels have higher oxygen content than gasoline based fuel so they are delivering more oxygen to the charge also not to the extent of a power adder but this is part of the big picture of how people make more power with it
alcohol is a great cleaner vehicles run on e85 will have much less deposits on internals , the negative is gasoline is a very dirty fuel and over time leaves a varnish like residue on everything it touches , inside of fuel tank ,lines ,injectors ,etc... now you introduce alcohol which is a cleaner and it breaks this crap left by years of gasoline use up and can raise havoc with plugging filters , injector screens etc... I worked in the boat business when e10 came around about 5 years ago and it was fine in new/newer boats but raised hell until we got all the crap out of the fuel system on older boats especially carburetors. People blamed the ethanol but the real problem was the residue the gasoline left !
you will also hear about corrosion Methanol is highly corrosive ( wood alcohol) and a lot of what you hear is misconceptions carried over from methanol use .
e85 can allow compression ratios up to around 15 to 1 but it better be 85% and you better have just the right components on place to make that happen , 13/13.5 to 1 should not be a problem.
e98 can run up to around 19 to 1 which is what indy cars have and run on e98 because no gasoline is capable of running this type of compression , flex fuel vehicles are gasoline vehicles that can also run ethanol blends if they built them optimized for ethanol ( high compression/ advanced timing) nobody would want to fill them with gasoline as they would have to detune the heck out of them when running on gas.
you will also see negative press on food vs fuel but that is all due to the US mandating corn be used as a base stock , corn is difficult to break down ( check before you flush lol) brazil uses sugar cane very effectively for instance , anything living that can be fermented can be turned into ethanol , a guy on the e85 forum ran his turbo gto on e85 he made himself using cat tail roots he would ferment/distill for example.
a couple other forums I am on seperated e85sections from fueling and made e85 specific sections which really helped get all the e85 info/discussion in one place (fast fords & modular mustangs and turbo buick/grand national forum)those are very active sctions on those forums and would be a great place to lurk and learn for anyone with interest in e85.
I studied the heck out of it a few years ago but it never got closer than 2 states away from me I am still hopeful it comes here someday as I also own a couple cars of a boosted platform that would benefit greatly from it. What has really changed in these few years is people on performance forums used to debate if it was any good or not now just about any platform out there the fastest cars are running e85 it is a superior fuel in regards to making power
Last edited by murphinator; 03-06-2013 at 07:42 PM.
