Someone School Me On Water/Meth
Gents, first assessment on water/meth NA. . .go get you one! I don't know if it was the elimination of ping or the charge cooling (it is currently humid and 80ish) but holy living hell it made a SOTP difference. Right now I'm basically running the thresholds from the install booklet with me back calculating the max duty cycle from my dyno graph. With the controller in the glovebox I cannot read the duty cycle or the injection rate while WOT, but I can see the light for the second jet turn on. I haven't changed the tune at all. As is, the bigger jet opens just about the time the TC locks and the hit is a little more impressive compared to before.
I made two WOT runs and both ended with a different highway patrolman looking me squarely in they eye. . .but I didn't get pulled over. If anyone knows a good place to open it up in NH I am all ears.
Cant wait to get this thing on the dyno and see if it's placebo or real. But one thing is for sure, I heard no pinging and logged no KR. After the dyno, I'll shoot for some track times.
For reference using 36lb injectors, mods in sig, 450whp/390tq I am running the 100ml/min jet as the small one and the big one is 175ml/min. Thresholds are 25%-50% duty cycle (small jet) and 55%-80% duty cycle (small + large jets)
I made two WOT runs and both ended with a different highway patrolman looking me squarely in they eye. . .but I didn't get pulled over. If anyone knows a good place to open it up in NH I am all ears.
Cant wait to get this thing on the dyno and see if it's placebo or real. But one thing is for sure, I heard no pinging and logged no KR. After the dyno, I'll shoot for some track times.
For reference using 36lb injectors, mods in sig, 450whp/390tq I am running the 100ml/min jet as the small one and the big one is 175ml/min. Thresholds are 25%-50% duty cycle (small jet) and 55%-80% duty cycle (small + large jets)
I'm really starting to consider this now. I'm incredibly torn between kits. Either the Snow, Alky, or the Aquamist. I'll say the Aquamist website is terrible to navigate though.
Since I'm speed density, I'm having trouble deciphering what to do about a MAF signal, as well as where the IAT sensor actually needs to be to "see" the cooler intake charge.
It's my understanding I can up the compression with a meth kit as well? True?
Since I'm speed density, I'm having trouble deciphering what to do about a MAF signal, as well as where the IAT sensor actually needs to be to "see" the cooler intake charge.
It's my understanding I can up the compression with a meth kit as well? True?
I'm really starting to consider this now. I'm incredibly torn between kits. Either the Snow, Alky, or the Aquamist. I'll say the Aquamist website is terrible to navigate though.
Since I'm speed density, I'm having trouble deciphering what to do about a MAF signal, as well as where the IAT sensor actually needs to be to "see" the cooler intake charge.
It's my understanding I can up the compression with a meth kit as well? True?
Since I'm speed density, I'm having trouble deciphering what to do about a MAF signal, as well as where the IAT sensor actually needs to be to "see" the cooler intake charge.
It's my understanding I can up the compression with a meth kit as well? True?
As for IAT, for the time being I respectfully disagree with moving it. To work properly the system needs to know mass of the incoming charge. To do rhis it needs the temp. We arent adding oxygen, so if wr decouple the temperature and maf readings we trick the computer into thinking it is getting more oxygen which would seem bad to me...but I am open to hearing how am wrong. I should call and ask snow.
Off to the dyno for me...
I tried calling Snow yesterday. They're closed till Monday 
I kind of AM adding oxygen into the equation though, since I'll be running their Nitro-Methane mix... Which is gonna throw a whole new wrench into the equation; A/F ratio. Maybe read in Lamda instead... I'm not sure. It's going to be lean as all get out though, I have a feeling.
Please dyno with the kit off, as a good baseline first. Then run the kit. I'm almost POSITIVE you're going to need a retune for it though. I'm curious to see the results with:
a) just adding the kit and tuning untouched
b) adding kit and tuning for the increased timing.
Only thing that worries me is if you tune to take advantage of the kit, that's IT. You'll need it (the water/meth kit) forever from that point on. I don't feel the pistons will like 33* of timing for very long with just 93 octane....
I kind of AM adding oxygen into the equation though, since I'll be running their Nitro-Methane mix... Which is gonna throw a whole new wrench into the equation; A/F ratio. Maybe read in Lamda instead... I'm not sure. It's going to be lean as all get out though, I have a feeling.
Please dyno with the kit off, as a good baseline first. Then run the kit. I'm almost POSITIVE you're going to need a retune for it though. I'm curious to see the results with:
a) just adding the kit and tuning untouched
b) adding kit and tuning for the increased timing.
Only thing that worries me is if you tune to take advantage of the kit, that's IT. You'll need it (the water/meth kit) forever from that point on. I don't feel the pistons will like 33* of timing for very long with just 93 octane....
Thread Starter
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (27)
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Posts: 9,728
Likes: 13
From: Jefferson City, MO
I tried calling Snow yesterday. They're closed till Monday
I kind of AM adding oxygen into the equation though, since I'll be running their Nitro-Methane mix... Which is gonna throw a whole new wrench into the equation; A/F ratio. Maybe read in Lamda instead... I'm not sure. It's going to be lean as all get out though, I have a feeling.
Please dyno with the kit off, as a good baseline first. Then run the kit. I'm almost POSITIVE you're going to need a retune for it though. I'm curious to see the results with:
a) just adding the kit and tuning untouched
b) adding kit and tuning for the increased timing.
Only thing that worries me is if you tune to take advantage of the kit, that's IT. You'll need it (the water/meth kit) forever from that point on. I don't feel the pistons will like 33* of timing for very long with just 93 octane....
I kind of AM adding oxygen into the equation though, since I'll be running their Nitro-Methane mix... Which is gonna throw a whole new wrench into the equation; A/F ratio. Maybe read in Lamda instead... I'm not sure. It's going to be lean as all get out though, I have a feeling.
Please dyno with the kit off, as a good baseline first. Then run the kit. I'm almost POSITIVE you're going to need a retune for it though. I'm curious to see the results with:
a) just adding the kit and tuning untouched
b) adding kit and tuning for the increased timing.
Only thing that worries me is if you tune to take advantage of the kit, that's IT. You'll need it (the water/meth kit) forever from that point on. I don't feel the pistons will like 33* of timing for very long with just 93 octane....
Dave, isn't there any hand held programer that is reasonably priced that can store multiple tunes? This would be great for what you are talking about, as well as having a N/A tune and a Nitrous tune. I remember posting a thread about this a while back and the only one that would do this was pretty damn expensive. I guess a hand held Diablo won't do this.
One of the first guys to post on this hit the nail on the head. You won't see any significant gains unless your IAT's are already very high, or have a very high CR, or are already close to seeing some knock.
If any of those factors are present, then you can gain a bit by adding meth injection.
But for MOST guys running NA, I would say your IAT's are nowhere near getting that hot, and honestly I don't think there is a whole lot to be gained.
Show me some dyno results saying I'm wrong here, but I will be surprised to see a gain that would be worthy of spending the $ needed on the meth injection kit.
On another note, Alky control makes a very good product. I believe Snow Performance does as well. For me, I went with Snow Performance because I felt their customer service was better.
If any of those factors are present, then you can gain a bit by adding meth injection.
But for MOST guys running NA, I would say your IAT's are nowhere near getting that hot, and honestly I don't think there is a whole lot to be gained.
Show me some dyno results saying I'm wrong here, but I will be surprised to see a gain that would be worthy of spending the $ needed on the meth injection kit.
On another note, Alky control makes a very good product. I believe Snow Performance does as well. For me, I went with Snow Performance because I felt their customer service was better.
I know you guys are chomping at the bit. Im literally in the plane taxiing on the other side of the country typing this on my phone. I promise, things are in the works. bear with me, just juggling some other stuff too.
I have some pretty interesting data, just want to discuss with a couple of experts first.
I have some pretty interesting data, just want to discuss with a couple of experts first.
Thread Starter
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (27)
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,728
Likes: 13
From: Jefferson City, MO
I know you guys are chomping at the bit. Im literally in the plane taxiing on the other side of the country typing this on my phone. I promise, things are in the works. bear with me, just juggling some other stuff too.
I have some pretty interesting data, just want to discuss with a couple of experts first.
I have some pretty interesting data, just want to discuss with a couple of experts first.
Kits from Snow and Devils Own can work with N/A setup. Both of those are lower cost, less fancy failsafes. Really the failsafes are more for us FI guys to cut boost when something stops working.
