Stepping up fuel system for E85
Stepping up fuel system for E85 It's time to start thinking about adding flex capability to my setup since I'm itching for some more power with my dontbsme clone. I'm wondering what will need to be upgraded in my fuel system to support the ethanol...
Gen 3 6.0, all stock other than SS2 cam and springs
Cast VSR 7875, currently running 93 pump and about 13psi/13 degrees
Fuel setup consists of:
-single in-tank Walbro 450
-6AN braided lines (feed/return)
-C5 filter/reg.
-Deka 80# injectors, stock truck fuel rail
I would like to add flex capability...what's required to support this? I'm guessing more injector and another in-tank pump, possibly bigger lines. Not going to run much more boost than what I already am, to keep the bottom end alive. The goal is 600-700 whp, just a fun street car. Thoughts?
Gen 3 6.0, all stock other than SS2 cam and springs
Cast VSR 7875, currently running 93 pump and about 13psi/13 degrees
Fuel setup consists of:
-single in-tank Walbro 450
-6AN braided lines (feed/return)
-C5 filter/reg.
-Deka 80# injectors, stock truck fuel rail
I would like to add flex capability...what's required to support this? I'm guessing more injector and another in-tank pump, possibly bigger lines. Not going to run much more boost than what I already am, to keep the bottom end alive. The goal is 600-700 whp, just a fun street car. Thoughts?
It's time to start thinking about adding flex capability to my setup since I'm itching for some more power with my dontbsme clone. I'm wondering what will need to be upgraded in my fuel system to support the ethanol...
Gen 3 6.0, all stock other than SS2 cam and springs
Cast VSR 7875, currently running 93 pump and about 13psi/13 degrees
Fuel setup consists of:
-single in-tank Walbro 450
-6AN braided lines (feed/return)
-C5 filter/reg.
-Deka 80# injectors, stock truck fuel rail
I would like to add flex capability...what's required to support this? I'm guessing more injector and another in-tank pump, possibly bigger lines. Not going to run much more boost than what I already am, to keep the bottom end alive. The goal is 600-700 whp, just a fun street car. Thoughts?
Gen 3 6.0, all stock other than SS2 cam and springs
Cast VSR 7875, currently running 93 pump and about 13psi/13 degrees
Fuel setup consists of:
-single in-tank Walbro 450
-6AN braided lines (feed/return)
-C5 filter/reg.
-Deka 80# injectors, stock truck fuel rail
I would like to add flex capability...what's required to support this? I'm guessing more injector and another in-tank pump, possibly bigger lines. Not going to run much more boost than what I already am, to keep the bottom end alive. The goal is 600-700 whp, just a fun street car. Thoughts?
I normally add 5 or more degrees of timing with 70-ish % ethanol, (still kinda conservative IMHO @19-20* total timing) but also have the option to pump 93 octane unleaded into the tank if need be, and it'll only be 12-14* total timing.
I run DUAL 450lph Walbros, BOTH ON FULL TIME
-8 Feed
to a "Y", dual fed Holley fuel rails
feeding Bosch 210# fuel injectors
to a Aeromotive A1000 Boost Sensitive regulator
-6 return
The Bosch's are a new addition.
At 4000# race weight, I went 9.76@142 with SEP1000's (@ 90-ish% duty cycle), so "upgraded" to SEP1500's which immediately had a warranty issue, and since the faithful SEP1000's were long gone, and I needed the car to race in a series I run, I bought the Bosch's...Bright side is I'll never outgrow these, but the reality is I could have just kept the SEP1000's and settled for how good it ran with them...lol. Oh well....
If you put in a 2nd pump, that Corvette regulator may not work for you. I guess you could always run Pump #2 on a Hobbs switch.
Hope this helps..
I had to switch (via HPTuners) to a custom 2 bar operating system that already had (Thanks Sloppy Mechanics) a flex fuel capable segment, swapped into it. Saying that, mine was a super easy conversion. My car already has/had a 2002 Silverado 6.0/4L80e OS, and I have unlimited license for that year, so I simply flashed it back to "stock 2002 Truck", then reflashed it to the "FLEX capable 2002 Truck", and it cost me nothing. A Google search told me what PIN to connect my GM/Continental Flex Fuel sensor to, and aside from plumbing the sensor in, that was it.
I normally add 5 or more degrees of timing with 70-ish % ethanol, (still kinda conservative IMHO @19-20* total timing) but also have the option to pump 93 octane unleaded into the tank if need be, and it'll only be 12-14* total timing.
I run DUAL 450lph Walbros, BOTH ON FULL TIME
-8 Feed
to a "Y", dual fed Holley fuel rails
feeding Bosch 210# fuel injectors
to a Aeromotive A1000 Boost Sensitive regulator
-6 return
The Bosch's are a new addition.
At 4000# race weight, I went 9.76@142 with SEP1000's (@ 90-ish% duty cycle), so "upgraded" to SEP1500's which immediately had a warranty issue, and since the faithful SEP1000's were long gone, and I needed the car to race in a series I run, I bought the Bosch's...Bright side is I'll never outgrow these, but the reality is I could have just kept the SEP1000's and settled for how good it ran with them...lol. Oh well....
If you put in a 2nd pump, that Corvette regulator may not work for you. I guess you could always run Pump #2 on a Hobbs switch.
Hope this helps..
I normally add 5 or more degrees of timing with 70-ish % ethanol, (still kinda conservative IMHO @19-20* total timing) but also have the option to pump 93 octane unleaded into the tank if need be, and it'll only be 12-14* total timing.
I run DUAL 450lph Walbros, BOTH ON FULL TIME
-8 Feed
to a "Y", dual fed Holley fuel rails
feeding Bosch 210# fuel injectors
to a Aeromotive A1000 Boost Sensitive regulator
-6 return
The Bosch's are a new addition.
At 4000# race weight, I went 9.76@142 with SEP1000's (@ 90-ish% duty cycle), so "upgraded" to SEP1500's which immediately had a warranty issue, and since the faithful SEP1000's were long gone, and I needed the car to race in a series I run, I bought the Bosch's...Bright side is I'll never outgrow these, but the reality is I could have just kept the SEP1000's and settled for how good it ran with them...lol. Oh well....
If you put in a 2nd pump, that Corvette regulator may not work for you. I guess you could always run Pump #2 on a Hobbs switch.
Hope this helps..
Any drawbacks (besides heating the fuel) to running both pumps all the time? I assume you each pump has a dedicated power feed/relay/fuse to take the load off the wiring. I'd rather try to reduce the amount of wiring, switches and complexity by staying away from a Hobbs switch if I can. If it fails under boost...
What's a reliable max duty cycle to run an injector at? With the Deka 80s I am hitting 70-75% under full load/boost, so I'm thinking adding ethanol (roughly 30%) will be pushing them to the max. I keep hearing horror stories about the Snake Eaters so I'm thinking about just jumping to the Bosch 210 and being done with it, probably never have to buy injectors again.
Any way to keep the system returnless? I am using stock truck returnless rails.
I think I need to go back and watch the Colorado videos where Matt puts in triple pumps and makes 1000whp, might be a good resource too.
Fantastic post, thanks for your insight. Couple questions...
Any drawbacks (besides heating the fuel) to running both pumps all the time? I assume you each pump has a dedicated power feed/relay/fuse to take the load off the wiring. I'd rather try to reduce the amount of wiring, switches and complexity by staying away from a Hobbs switch if I can. If it fails under boost...
Running flex fuel exclusively, I can drive for an hour or so, and the filter I have right at the "Y" going to my rails (literally on top of my intake), is COOL to the touch, so I really don't have (or seen) an issue with fuel heating like some talk about.
I have the CHRS1313, dual 450 setup with dual "Hotwire" harness. It's a plug in to the factory harness, but main pump power is direct to the battery, whether one or two pumps, will dictate 1 or 2 heavy gauge wires. It's a very neat, well made setup, IMO.
What's a reliable max duty cycle to run an injector at? With the Deka 80s I am hitting 70-75% under full load/boost, so I'm thinking adding ethanol (roughly 30%) will be pushing them to the max. I keep hearing horror stories about the Snake Eaters so I'm thinking about just jumping to the Bosch 210 and being done with it, probably never have to buy injectors again.
Being on a budget, I was a fan of the Snake Eater injectors. My car ran it's best time/mph with the SEP1000's. I sold them over the off season, and swapped in a brand new set of the SEP1500's, and had issues immediately. Tried to have them cleaned & checked out locally, but THREE were pretty much DEAD...They only worked at WOT. They warranty them forever, so I sent them back to Hawaii, and within a week or so after they got them, they confirmed they were bad, and sent me a brand new, matched set, which I sold to a member here.
Sold them because I had already bought a brand new set of the Bosch 210's. They work great, were easy to tune, and won't ever be outgrown by me, lol.
Running 15psi of boost, with the SEP1000's, I saw as high as 92% duty cycle, with the 1500's, mid 70% @ WOT, and with the Bosch's, I've never logged duty cycle over 55%. That was 16-17psi of WOT boost. These are the NON-matched VSRacing Bosch 210's, which were like $550? The same local guy who tried saving my SEP1500's flowed the 210's before I swapped them in. They are within a couple % of each other, so can't imagine the extra $150 for "matched", would be well spent.
Any way to keep the system returnless? I am using stock truck returnless rails.
Sorry, I have no idea on that. My car has been a return style for almost 4 years.
I think I need to go back and watch the Colorado videos where Matt puts in triple pumps and makes 1000whp, might be a good resource too.
No doubt. Just be aware. Damn near every "famous" YouTuber seems to talk in circles and/or bend the truth a bit. Take what you WATCH, (and of course, READ), with a grain of salt...
Any drawbacks (besides heating the fuel) to running both pumps all the time? I assume you each pump has a dedicated power feed/relay/fuse to take the load off the wiring. I'd rather try to reduce the amount of wiring, switches and complexity by staying away from a Hobbs switch if I can. If it fails under boost...
Running flex fuel exclusively, I can drive for an hour or so, and the filter I have right at the "Y" going to my rails (literally on top of my intake), is COOL to the touch, so I really don't have (or seen) an issue with fuel heating like some talk about.
I have the CHRS1313, dual 450 setup with dual "Hotwire" harness. It's a plug in to the factory harness, but main pump power is direct to the battery, whether one or two pumps, will dictate 1 or 2 heavy gauge wires. It's a very neat, well made setup, IMO.
What's a reliable max duty cycle to run an injector at? With the Deka 80s I am hitting 70-75% under full load/boost, so I'm thinking adding ethanol (roughly 30%) will be pushing them to the max. I keep hearing horror stories about the Snake Eaters so I'm thinking about just jumping to the Bosch 210 and being done with it, probably never have to buy injectors again.
Being on a budget, I was a fan of the Snake Eater injectors. My car ran it's best time/mph with the SEP1000's. I sold them over the off season, and swapped in a brand new set of the SEP1500's, and had issues immediately. Tried to have them cleaned & checked out locally, but THREE were pretty much DEAD...They only worked at WOT. They warranty them forever, so I sent them back to Hawaii, and within a week or so after they got them, they confirmed they were bad, and sent me a brand new, matched set, which I sold to a member here.
Sold them because I had already bought a brand new set of the Bosch 210's. They work great, were easy to tune, and won't ever be outgrown by me, lol.
Running 15psi of boost, with the SEP1000's, I saw as high as 92% duty cycle, with the 1500's, mid 70% @ WOT, and with the Bosch's, I've never logged duty cycle over 55%. That was 16-17psi of WOT boost. These are the NON-matched VSRacing Bosch 210's, which were like $550? The same local guy who tried saving my SEP1500's flowed the 210's before I swapped them in. They are within a couple % of each other, so can't imagine the extra $150 for "matched", would be well spent.
Any way to keep the system returnless? I am using stock truck returnless rails.
Sorry, I have no idea on that. My car has been a return style for almost 4 years.
I think I need to go back and watch the Colorado videos where Matt puts in triple pumps and makes 1000whp, might be a good resource too.
No doubt. Just be aware. Damn near every "famous" YouTuber seems to talk in circles and/or bend the truth a bit. Take what you WATCH, (and of course, READ), with a grain of salt...
On The Tree
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 146
Likes: 15
From: Sioux Falls, SD
I subscribe to the over 500 whp get rid of corvette regulator and returnless system school of thought.
I use Bosch 210s as well, 2 AEM pumps on all the time. I did -8 feeds that Y into -10 to fuel filter to the front of the car through the right rail crossovered to the left rail then to regulator. Then -8 return to the tank which also has FF sensor in return line. You don't need -10 but I wanted scale in case I upgraded later.
If you are Holley EFI you will also need the powerpack alt/FF wire for easiest install.
I have same turbo and made 735 wheel on a bit more boost.
I use Bosch 210s as well, 2 AEM pumps on all the time. I did -8 feeds that Y into -10 to fuel filter to the front of the car through the right rail crossovered to the left rail then to regulator. Then -8 return to the tank which also has FF sensor in return line. You don't need -10 but I wanted scale in case I upgraded later.
If you are Holley EFI you will also need the powerpack alt/FF wire for easiest install.
I have same turbo and made 735 wheel on a bit more boost.
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TECH Fanatic
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 1,129
Likes: 478
You're not going to do 700whp on E85 with a corvette regulator. Not going to happen. That much on gas is an insane stretch for them.
You can get an aftermarket regulator and put it in place of your corvette regulator. There is no rule that an aftermarket regulator can't be in the back of the car.
The stock truck regulator on the stock return rails can do 700+whp on E85, surprisingly, and is my go-to.
6 AN is more than enough for that power on E85.
Duty cycle numbers aren't typically relevant. Their calculations are based on things that you may or may not have entered correctly for your injector data, so the number you see is rarely accurate.
You can get an aftermarket regulator and put it in place of your corvette regulator. There is no rule that an aftermarket regulator can't be in the back of the car.
The stock truck regulator on the stock return rails can do 700+whp on E85, surprisingly, and is my go-to.
6 AN is more than enough for that power on E85.
Duty cycle numbers aren't typically relevant. Their calculations are based on things that you may or may not have entered correctly for your injector data, so the number you see is rarely accurate.
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Verdad Gallardo TECH Fanatic
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 1,129
Likes: 478
I did -8 feeds that Y into -10 to fuel filter to the front of the car through the right rail crossovered to the left rail then to regulator. Then -8 return to the tank which also has FF sensor in return line. You don't need -10 but I wanted scale in case I upgraded later.
10 AN is what Pro Mods use to make 4000 HP. You either just have no clue what size you need and buy what people tell you, or have seriously ambitious goals.
On The Tree
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 146
Likes: 15
From: Sioux Falls, SD
Slightly different having two feeds off a mechanical pump vs splitting a single 10 into two 8's... but yes its way overkill.
Bump for new questions.
I've since parted ways with the prior car/fuel system so I have a clean slate to start from. The goal is still 700+whp on pump ethanol. Still running the 6.0/SS2, cast 7875. Switching to an LS1 intake with a returnless OEM fuel rail. Ditching the stock PCM for a Holley Terminator X Max.
The new car (1984 Jaguar XJ6) has a super oddball twin tank setup with an external pump that is failure prone, so I'm thinking about just ditching that whole setup and starting fresh with a fuel cell mounted in the spare tire well.
Questions:
Any recommendations on a fuel cell? Something with a sender would be nice so I can hook it to a gauge. Must be ethanol compliant.
In-tank basket style or switch to external pumps/filters/regulator? I already have a Walbro 450 but don't mind upgrading if it means I can just do it once and be done with it.
Are my Deka 80s up to the task? If not, step up to 210s?
Thanks!
I've since parted ways with the prior car/fuel system so I have a clean slate to start from. The goal is still 700+whp on pump ethanol. Still running the 6.0/SS2, cast 7875. Switching to an LS1 intake with a returnless OEM fuel rail. Ditching the stock PCM for a Holley Terminator X Max.
The new car (1984 Jaguar XJ6) has a super oddball twin tank setup with an external pump that is failure prone, so I'm thinking about just ditching that whole setup and starting fresh with a fuel cell mounted in the spare tire well.
Questions:
Any recommendations on a fuel cell? Something with a sender would be nice so I can hook it to a gauge. Must be ethanol compliant.
In-tank basket style or switch to external pumps/filters/regulator? I already have a Walbro 450 but don't mind upgrading if it means I can just do it once and be done with it.
Are my Deka 80s up to the task? If not, step up to 210s?
Thanks!
Bump...thinking of retaining the dual tanks and using an external pump or two to feed the rails. What's a good budget external pump that can support mid to high teens of boost on E85?
So how does the factory setup work in your car, 2 separate fuel tanks that gravity feed to another tank, or right to a merge with a pump right there?
I searched a little, and saw some tank setups in here: https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...-tanks-197470/
I like the idea of the tank right behind the back seat, does not eat up whole trunk. I saw that as a guy with a 15 gallon cell that eats up 2/3s of my trunk, it's not ideal.
My system is overkill, (-10 feed, -8 to rails, -8 return( but I think if you can find a good external pump I'd go -8 feed and at least -6 return.
I searched a little, and saw some tank setups in here: https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...-tanks-197470/
I like the idea of the tank right behind the back seat, does not eat up whole trunk. I saw that as a guy with a 15 gallon cell that eats up 2/3s of my trunk, it's not ideal.
My system is overkill, (-10 feed, -8 to rails, -8 return( but I think if you can find a good external pump I'd go -8 feed and at least -6 return.
I would like to add flex capability...what's required to support this? I'm guessing more injector and another in-tank pump, possibly bigger lines. Not going to run much more boost than what I already am, to keep the bottom end alive. The goal is 600-700 whp, just a fun street car. Thoughts?
Fuel System – Racing the Exocet
No need to spend that much time or money. I have a warmed over 5.7; intake, heads, big cam. Makes about 450'ish on the chassis dyno (it has not been tuned recently). I run nothing but E-85. I'm using an in tank 240lph pump, 10mm nylon lines, Corvette filter/regulator, stock crossover, and bigger injectors. I run it lap after lap to 7K, and fuel starvation is not an issue at all.
Fuel System – Racing the Exocet
Fuel System – Racing the Exocet