E85, C85 or C12?
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 6,018
Likes: 2,297
From: Conroe, Texas
E85, C85 or C12? I've searched the LS1Tech threads on this subject to no avail. E85 is cheap, the C85 is a better fuel altogether but just as expensive as the C12 and the fact that ethanol is corrosive and it takes 33% more fuel to power the engine tends to make me shy away from it. Right now it's a 12:1 motor with a dynamic of 9:1 but I'm having the heads milled to reach 13:1. I'm staying NA and will add NOS later on down the road but I like the idea of E85 because the fuel is cheap and readily available in my area but what makes it superior to race gas? I've been told that I cannot run E85 on the 411 ECM due to not having the flex fuel capabilities and it would have to see C85 only. I'm not so sure that is the case because you could get away with an E70 tune to compensate correct?
The key issue is variability.
you pick a fuel, you tune for it, and you are good to go……until………..something changes.
Example: Pump e85
it is not always e85. So unless you are checking fuel every time you fill up, you are taking a risk.
Usually anything coming out of a racing fuel can, you can assume it is pretty close to the previous can of the same batch.
Newer PCMs are better at determining the blend of fuel, so they give you some forgives.
(either via a fuel composition sensor or virtual tables)
Example: My 2013 truck is flex fuel. I can top off my 1/2 tank of 87 with e85 and the computer will adjust fuel flow and timing.
On the drag car, we only run C16. We know this means our tune up will work, and we also know 02 sensor life expectancy is decreased. Cost of playing.
you pick a fuel, you tune for it, and you are good to go……until………..something changes.
Example: Pump e85
it is not always e85. So unless you are checking fuel every time you fill up, you are taking a risk.
Usually anything coming out of a racing fuel can, you can assume it is pretty close to the previous can of the same batch.
Newer PCMs are better at determining the blend of fuel, so they give you some forgives.
(either via a fuel composition sensor or virtual tables)
Example: My 2013 truck is flex fuel. I can top off my 1/2 tank of 87 with e85 and the computer will adjust fuel flow and timing.
On the drag car, we only run C16. We know this means our tune up will work, and we also know 02 sensor life expectancy is decreased. Cost of playing.
E-85 is said to vary in consistency. I used to test every batch I used. But it was always so close to the same, I don't bother anymore. But I don't buy it in the winter, just April to October. And I usually buy from the same 2 stations.
E-85 is not as corrosive as people seem to think it is. Reading a lot of articles, you'd think your entire fuel system will dissolve like a Styrofoam cup. Not so. The ethanol will cause very little corrosion, and it's an excellent cleaner. BUT... ethanol is hydrophilic - it likes water. After distillation, it's about 4% water. As it sits, it will attract more water. And water can be pretty corrosive to metal parts.
I've run my race cars on e-85 for the last decade. Great stuff. Lots cheaper than premium pump fuel. And the engine runs extremely cool on very hot days. It uses about 20-25% more fuel than pump premium.
One problem with pump e-85 is that they often use the cheapest lowest grade garbage gas for the 15%. The cheap gas causes detonation under the first compression ring; and that's bad. If you're going to run very high compression levels I suggest purchasing a race formula. Then the 15% will be a quality race fuel. Otherwise, you end up with this.
E-85 is not as corrosive as people seem to think it is. Reading a lot of articles, you'd think your entire fuel system will dissolve like a Styrofoam cup. Not so. The ethanol will cause very little corrosion, and it's an excellent cleaner. BUT... ethanol is hydrophilic - it likes water. After distillation, it's about 4% water. As it sits, it will attract more water. And water can be pretty corrosive to metal parts.
I've run my race cars on e-85 for the last decade. Great stuff. Lots cheaper than premium pump fuel. And the engine runs extremely cool on very hot days. It uses about 20-25% more fuel than pump premium.
One problem with pump e-85 is that they often use the cheapest lowest grade garbage gas for the 15%. The cheap gas causes detonation under the first compression ring; and that's bad. If you're going to run very high compression levels I suggest purchasing a race formula. Then the 15% will be a quality race fuel. Otherwise, you end up with this.
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 6,018
Likes: 2,297
From: Conroe, Texas
Thanks for posting your experiences with E85 and my condolences to that piston there. DAMN!
A friend of mine told me the same thing about pump E85 and said if it was him he'd run C12 but if I'm hell bent on running ethanol at least run C85 and now I know why. I'll be at 13:1 and the thoughts of having a 100+octane for $2.65 a gallon sure seemed appealing.
A friend of mine told me the same thing about pump E85 and said if it was him he'd run C12 but if I'm hell bent on running ethanol at least run C85 and now I know why. I'll be at 13:1 and the thoughts of having a 100+octane for $2.65 a gallon sure seemed appealing.
Thanks for posting your experiences with E85 and my condolences to that piston there. DAMN!
A friend of mine told me the same thing about pump E85 and said if it was him he'd run C12 but if I'm hell bent on running ethanol at least run C85 and now I know why. I'll be at 13:1 and the thoughts of having a 100+octane for $2.65 a gallon sure seemed appealing.
A friend of mine told me the same thing about pump E85 and said if it was him he'd run C12 but if I'm hell bent on running ethanol at least run C85 and now I know why. I'll be at 13:1 and the thoughts of having a 100+octane for $2.65 a gallon sure seemed appealing.
Best thing I can advise is get good injectors and have them cleaned somewhat often. I loved running pump E85 on my last build, didn't have the non catted exhaust smell.
TECH Addict
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 2,513
Likes: 480
From: PDX-OR-USA
Its supposed to work on Ethanol cars but I've only used it running Methanol, its Klotz-Uplon
our problems with stale methanol fuel in the dirt cars went away when we started adding it.
Takes a quart per 55 gallon drum of Methanol.
We have a few stations around here where I can get E100.. I know that's not available everywhere..
our problems with stale methanol fuel in the dirt cars went away when we started adding it.
Takes a quart per 55 gallon drum of Methanol.
We have a few stations around here where I can get E100.. I know that's not available everywhere..
