2001ws6ft

I have a procharged setup right now that dyno'd at 455RWHP, but I'm planning on doing head and intake porting, camshaft, headers, and smaller pulley. After all is said and done, I'm shooting for 600 RWHP.

-I have a racetronix 255lph hotwire kit. The pump claims to be able to handle 600 engine horsepower (I'm assuming naturally aspirated). I'm assuming the hotwire kit increases voltage, but I don't know if it increases the horsepower limit of the pump. I installed it the correct way (no cutting the trunk) and I really want to avoid spending money on a new pump and doing all that work again. I know I should've gone with a bigger pump for upgrades down the road.

-The procharger system came with an inline pump that's supposed to help the factory system. I asked Bob from brutespeed if I needed it with the upgraded fuel pump and he said I should be more than fine so I never installed it and I've had 0 fueling issues at my current power level.

For anyone familiar with the inline fuel pump that procharger provides. Will adding this in conjunction to the hotwire kit I have provide enough fuel?

2001ws6ft

Anyone?

pdxmotorhead

This might help..

https://help.summitracing.com/app/an...p-do-i-need%3F

Kevin Blown 95 TA

I had a similar setup at one time, but with a Vortech T-trim supercharger/383 LT1 with a racetronix in-tank pump, their hotwire kit, and a T-Rex booster pump inline that came with the original Vortech S-trim kit, and when I increased the boost I eventually reached the point that the inline booster pump was a restriction and decided to rebuild the fuel system with dual intank pumps and different fuel lines, etc. I first noticed problems at the track when I was doing the burnouts and it fell flat on its face a couple times. I did the runs anyway and was probably lean but it was masked by the methanol injection, but when I got home I looked at the logs and decided to ditch the inline booster pump and redo the fuel system by putting two larger pumps inside the tank, doing teflon lines and fittings on the fuel rails. The only thing I didn't try was the single racetronix in-tank pump without the inline booster, but didn't think that would be sufficient cause like you mentioned, I think its rated for about 500 hp NA and is that just at the flywheel too? I'm not sure how little you can get away with as far as fuel lines, etc, but it does add up to do a whole system. One thing I felt was worth doing was I reconfigured the whole fuel bung thing where the fuel lines go through to the tank. That OE supply line tapers down fairly small where it go into the pump, and if you take the rubber hose off the feed line coming off the pump, you'll see what I mean. It's smaller than the diameter of the fuel line by quite a bit at the taper and the opening is restricted even more. And those electrical connections on the bung are weak, too - they're really small and no matter how big your wire is running all the way back from the battery to the relay, the connectors at the bung of the sending unit are tiny. Just something to keep in mind if you go in there again. None of what's there was meant for a setup making twice the horsepower. I ran all larger wires through there and soldered in two full diameter 3/8" feed lines from the two pumps, which is overkill, but not that hard to do really.

2001ws6ft

That's what I was completely worried about....the inline pump becoming a restriction. The 255lph racetronix I bought is rated for 600 horsepower NA. I can't figure out why they don't mention what flow the hotwire kit adds. I really wish I had put in a bigger pump when I replaced it. I'm dreading not just paying more money for a new pump, but also dropping that tank. What a PITA. Here's the inline pump I have from procharger.
https://shop.brutespeed.com/ATI-FP00...FP001I-002.htm

dlandsvZ28

With respect to fuel supply going lean during a burnout: It might have been that your alternator quit at WOT with the result being that the pump didn't get enough volts/amps to run the pump as maximum pressure. There are many threads on this forum about this issue. Due a search for the fix.

Another reason for low pressure when running larger pumps on a 98 or older fuel pump assembly is the yellow bulkhead connector. That connector can only supply up to 14 amps per pin, compared to up to 30 amps per pin on two of the largest pins on the new replacment Racetronix bulkhead connector for model years 1999-2002. Search the Racetronix site for the replacement bulkhead connector. That connector does NOT fit on the 98 fuel pump assembly.

The fix to run dual pumps on the 98 fuel tank assembly is to use Racetronix's dual pump harness. That harness runs each pump with its own single harness along with a relay for each pump. Each single harness in the kit terminates at the alternator using a 10 gauge high strand count wire. The kit also connects to the stock bulkhead connector aft of the back seat panel allowing the pump to fire with key to prime and start the car. The second pump can be adapted to fire using a Hobbs switch.

The Racetronix dual harness kit still uses the yellow bulkhead connector. However two of the very small pins on the yellow bulkhead connector are used to power each pump compared to the stock configuration that uses one pin on the connector for the pump and the other pin for ground to the pump. Each pin can handle a maxium of 14 amps. Using two pins instead of one pin is enough amps to handle two Racetronix 255 pumps, perhaps even two Racetronix 340 pumps. The remaining two pins on the connector power the fuel level sender.

A grounding post is added to the metal fuel hat. The ground from each pump is reconfigured so each ground from each pump is connected to the grounding plug. A short intermediate harness runs from the two pumps to the relays in the harness, to the alternator, and also the the white bulkhead connector mentioned above. Each pump is powered with its own 10 gauge wire from the alternator.

So - IMO - you could probably adapt the Racetronix dual pump harness and continue to use the single Racetronix intank pump with one harness and use the second harness to fire the inline pump. This means, however, that you would have to reconfigure the second harness to supply power to the inline pump instead of the Racetronix's configuration that runs power to a second intank pump. And I don't think you would have to pull the fuel tank assembly to change the ground.

With this configuration one harness runs the intank harness supplying 14 amps to the pump. The second harness in the kit is confgured to run the inline pump supplying a full 14 amps to the pump. I am specualting that the original configuration of the inline pump uses the original stock wiring to fire the inline pump. The stock wiring is less than adequate to fire two pumps at full capacity. For this reason Racetronix sells upgraded hot wire kits that can supply more amps to a single pump or even dual pumps requiring up to 30 amps.

But, all of the above said, you also have to make sure that your alternator isn't falling flat on WOT if you are revving over 6500 RPM's and the alternator over 18,000 RPM. You might also have to upgrade to a 145-165 amp alternator dependent upon the total amps required running AC, dual radiator rans, BA dual fuel pumps, and possibly a methanol pump as well.

When you see the lights go dim during a burnout, it's probably due to the alternator falling flat when spinning over 18,000 rpm.

BTW - PowerMaster sells a 165 amp alternator that bolts in without any clearance issue between the alternator pully and the ProCharger head unit pulley. The oversized truck and Escalade 145 amp alternators have clearnace issues if running a Procharger. The pulleys touch because of the larger case on the alternator.

HTH

2001ws6ft

Thanks. That's a lot to take in. Mine's a 2001. I was planning on the powermaster alternator upgrade....just like you said, it's expensive, but I don't want to deal with clearance issues. So.....if I use a racetronix dual pump harness to fire the inline pump........you think it'll work? The inline pump won't act like a restriction? I wonder if I'll be able to wire this the right way. I can't even remember if I have to drop the tank to get to the wiring harness.....

pdxmotorhead

Just a couple thoughts,, Maybe they help maybe not..
I always run electric pumps off a dedicated feed (8G Wire) straight off the battery + to a relay for each pump.
#10 wire from each relay to the pump with a 30-40A fuse-able link style fuse to each pump.

Even the power master will fall off if you over spin it. Best supplemental solution is try and make your electrical system wiring balance so there is as little voltage drop as possible from the battery to critical systems. Injection/fuel pump/ignition coils/ECU & transmission power feed if an auto. I use a buss bar from the battery, running off a 00 high strand welding cable, then provide a circuit as short as possible for each major system. Mine is on the firewall, #10 wire to each critical circuit, they all end up < 2-3 feet long from there.

2001ws6ft

Thanks. It helps and it doesn't........I'm pretty handy when it comes to mechanical stuff, but I'm still new to wiring, electronics........so i'm nervous in tackling this stuff. lol But yes, these are all good ideas. Much appreciated.

pdxmotorhead

Just treat electricity like your plumbing water,, bigger pipes flow more..
Short pipes have less drag on the fluid.
Helps to draw plans out for what your doing and really play with routing of the cables.
90% of stock car wiring is undersized its designed to "just" barely handle the loads.
For pure track cars I start with a set of heavy cutters and usually none of the factory wiring is left..

Street cars its the challenge of keeping it all road legal drive-able and all the comfort stuff in place.
I just switch the stock wire from directly running the device to triggering a relay to run the device so its like a piggyback electrical system.

Kevin Blown 95 TA

I agree with this,
Now what I did is run big +12V supply wire and big ground wire to the back of the car where there's two relays near the tank and then ran two separate large gauge wires from the relay outputs and the ground through the tank bulkhead to the pumps. One pump is the primary and the other pump is secondary and it turns on at WOT by a hobbs switch and alternatively by a parallel wired toggle switch in the ashtray (for if you're already racing) The stock fuel pump wiring powers the primary relay coil. After the relays, the two +12v wires go to two identical waterproof connectors that can be swapped easily, making it possible to switch primary and secondary pumps to periodically even out the hours of use or in case one pump fails. Its been like this for a long time now and it works pretty well. I do have a FP gauge in one of the ventillation/AC eyeballs and can monitor the pressure from the drivers seat. It does bump up a little bit when the second pump is turned on. I will add that you need to make sure the regulator is working as boost referenced and is adding FP as the boost rises, other than that, it's not too difficult in theory, just takes a while to get it all picked out and installed. I did do the trap door mod at the first fuel pump change, so that made it a lot easier and I don't regret it.

2001ws6ft

Thanks. I was planning on doing something like this. I also have this random question now that I thought of it. The in tank racetronix pump I have comes with the regulator (just like the factory). I'm guessing you that such a design can't be boost referenced. I'm also guessing that my tuner took into account the fuel pressure drop as boost was rising. How the heck does the stock style in tank regulator reference boost? If this is possible of course.

dlandsvZ28

No it doesn't. The stock intank fuel pressure regulator only supplies a static 58 psi of pressure irrespective of boost. GM engineers manage kPA in the stock tune in the IFR table and other tables. But only for NA. With forced induction and an external FPR the IFR table has to be changed to account for boost (forced induction) as the pressure in the intake transitions from NA (vacuum state) to more pressure over atmosphere (boost - 10 PSI for example).

To account for boost you remove the intank regulator and replace with a boost referenced external fuel pressure regulator. Along with the FPR you have to convert the fuel supply feed and return system. You will have to install larger capacity fuel injectors as well.

Search this forum for directions how to do make the change from the stock regulator to the external type FPR. This link explains how a boost referenced FPR works.

https://www.turbosmart.com/news/how-does-an-fpr-work/

However, this means you have to drop the tank to remove the intank fuel regulator. Of course if you have to do that, then IMO, it's best the scrap the use of the inline external fuel pump and replace with dual intank fuel pumps. The Racetronix 510 lph dual pump kit and wire harness can support up to 1000 rwhp on 91. Not sure about E85 but have to assume it's less.

The Hobbs switch harness supplied with the dual fuel pump harness activates the second pump determined by the boost pressure designation of the switch that can be as low as 2psi up to 7psi.

I never ordered the inline fuel pump with my D1 SC. So am just speculating that ATI configured it to supply extra fuel and pressure with boost. Perhaps back in 2004-2005 when the D1 arrived on the scene 6 to eight lbs of boost wasn't considered a big deal and so everyone accounted for boost in the tune by adding fuel in the tune along with an inline external fuel pump.

For example, my tuner back then never mentioned that I should convert to an external boost referenced FPR. In fact I'm not sure he knew either. He adjusted the tune to supply more fuel during boost leaving fuel pressure static at 58 PSI. With 8 lbs of boost, fuel pressure should rise to 66 PSI. Instead, if boost isn't accounted for, actual fuel pressure without an FPR to account for the additonal 8 PSI of boost is only 50 PSI. Science states that when you increase pressure your decrease volume. Reduced fuel volume is not exactly what you want when running forced induction.

The ideal way to configure the fuel system for forced induction is to install dual pumps, dual wire harness, along with a return style boost referenced FPR. This link explains why.

https://aeromotiveinc.com/wp-content...c_Boost_01.pdf

Note: You have an advantage with your 2001. I don't know about early Racetronix hot wire kits, but the later 1999 -2002 versions include the new and upgrade bulkhead connector. Two blades in the connector each can handle up to 30 amps needed for BA pumps. So if you do install an upgraded harness for dual pumps make sure to install the upgraded bulkhead connector. It's easy to identify if you already have one. Two of the terminal blades are larger. Search Racetronix for a pic.

It's costly when you want BIG rwhp.

2001ws6ft

This is what I currently have with hotwire kit being an option:
http://www.ws6project.com/user_stor/...oducts_id=9847

What I'd LIKE to do is to run two pumps like you said, but I want to run separate fuel lines all the way to the fuel rail in front. If I go with one line, I'd have to upgrade in size I'd assume and at that point, I figure it would be more worthwhile to have each pump with its own line. I don't know if it's possible to have each pump have its own line while still having a return line and an evap line. This is what my setup would be:
-2 pumps with each having its own fuel lines.
-One pump on a hobbs 2psi switch
-filter on each line
-check valve on each line
-y connector going into a fuel pressure regulator
-return line going back to the tank

Racetronix is quality, but their instructions and information leaves something to be desired.

dlandsvZ28

IMO, the cost to run a single -8an PTFE fuel hose on the feed side isn't even close to the cost of running two -6AN PTFE fuel hose lines to the rails. Racetronix used to sell a PTFE fuel line kit for the Fbody. I did a quick search but couldn't find it. That kit will give you a starting point when comparing fuel hose kits from competing vendors.

With two feed lines you need about 32 feet of hose plus double the number of PTFE hose fittings. I recall on an fbody you need about 16 feet of fuel hose from the tank up to the rails. On the return side you can use the stock -6AN hard feed line. It runs back to the original fuel filter location. From there you need about 5 to six feet of -6AN PTFE fuel line to run up to the tank. You can use the stock plastic fuel line but you will have to tie the two together with hose and fittings to reach the feed hose that runs up to the tank. Doing so will depend on if you choose to locate a larger higher capacity fuel filter in same location as the stock filter. I chose not to because I did NOT drop the tank and because I chose to add fittings to the feed and return on the metal 98 hat.

I also relocated the fuel filter to a new location. With two pumps and if you run two two feed lines you will need two high capacity flow fuel filters with a low number micron size. One large fuel filter is more than adequate if it is sized correctly (-8 or -10AN in and -8 or -10an out).

FWIW: PTFE -8an fuel line costs about $8 per foot up to about $25 per foot (extremely bendable convoluted teflon inner liner with braided outer covering). You will want fuel line hose that will not rot in a few years due to ethanol in the fuel. Fuel line with a PTFE inner liner will not. Beware of internet fuel hose kits hat don't identity the inner liner hose material.

Bear in mind that you will have to nearly double the amount of hose fittings on the feed side if you chose to use two feed lines. You will also have to tap another feed tube into the fuel hat if you want to run a line for each pump.

So, not sure why you want to reinvent the wheel by running two feed line when it's so simple to run just one line, less complicated, proven to handle 1000 rwhp and more, and with many, many threads on this forum and others with nearly complete tutorials showing ever step of the installation process.

IMO, don't make this more complicated than what it needs to be.

Lastly, not sure why you need check valves. The FPR will bleed off some when left parked. The fuel system will prime quickly enough with key-on and will start. Heck, even my '16 ZO6 turns over just a little bit longer when it has been parked for awhile. So what? It still starts in less than 2 seconds.

Kevin Blown 95 TA

Like I mentioned, I have an LT1 so it is a little different when stock but here's a couple pics to give you an idea of one way to do it.



There are two -6 lines coming from the pumps and a larger -8 return line going from the regulator back to the tank. I got some free -8 line from work so I used that in a couple places .The two lines from the pumps go to two redundant check valves, then to a Y then a single line to the filter. Then a -8 line goes up front before splitting back into two lines to feed the fuel rails. The check valves are there because if one of the pump check valves ever fail, the system will still work without one pump trying to blow fuel back through the other pump's open check valve.The purple thing on the manifold is a boost referenced regulator which goes up one pound in FP for one pound in boost. The awkward gold fittings on the regulator are for the FP gauge sender hanging off the back. You can see I left the stock fuel lines intact in case I want to take all this stuff out. I stilll have the original sending unit & pump intact and all the original wiring is still there, I unpinned a couple wires that were for the original pump and even have the original fuel rails put away, so nothing got butchered to do this.

2001ws6ft

you're right about the dual line. My thinking behind it was that I would just have to get one 6an fuel line to run from the second pump (i'd keep the stock fuel line for the other pump) and then run it along the other line.

I'm DREADING dropping that stupid fuel tank again.

I'm probably going to go with a single 340lph pump or 495lph. It claims 800 and 1000 horsepower rated and even though I'm boosted, my goal's a 600 to 650 RWHP car. More simple wiring, more simple installation. I'm going to have to upgrade fuel line, filter, and add an fpr, but that would've been the same for a dual pump.