ethanol in fuel?
ethanol in fuel? The gas station i usually go to has just started putting 10% ethanol in their 89 fuel. They now only have regular 87, 89 and 89 with 10% ethanol. No longer do they carry 91. Can any one give me any more info on the ethanol blend? Guess its time to start getting gas some where they still carry 91?
Last edited by m6z; Jul 15, 2005 at 09:15 AM. Reason: sp
Originally Posted by m6z
The gas station i usually go to has just started putting 10% ethanol in their 89 fuel. They now only have regular 87, 89 and 89 with 10% ethanol. No longer do they carry 91. Can any one give me any more info on the ethanol blend? Guess its time to start getting gas some where they still carry 91?
Yeah, I would try to find another gas station if you have a selection (hopefully you live or work in an area that doesn't have just one station...I have to drive at least 20 miles just to get 91...at least I work in a bigger city). A few of the BP's in KS carry 92 as well also; I might search for those. That's where I usually get my gas these days. I'm still searching for a place in Topeka to get 93 or higher gas besides the race pumps at HPT...Kansas really screws us when it comes to gas (and quite a few other dumb rules).
But if I were you, take your business elsewhere and don't put that junk in your tank.
Sadly, every gas station around me has fuel with 10% ethanol. I believe its an emissions control mandated for my area (metro NY area). My gas milage has gone down with it and tuning is way off from normal gas.
Whats so bad about ethanol? I run 85% ethanol in my car, works great. Car runs cooler, and can run more timing under boost. Has an octane rating of 104-106. Also increases the VE of the engine.
My VE table needed to be lowered when they switched to 10% ethanol.
After they first switched, all my fuel trims went positive, I started getting ping where there was none, and my milage dropped down a couple MPG. If youre running a high compression race car or (in your case) a high psi FI application, then ethanol may have some virtues, but in a motor desined for pump gas, its detrimental IMO.
After they first switched, all my fuel trims went positive, I started getting ping where there was none, and my milage dropped down a couple MPG. If youre running a high compression race car or (in your case) a high psi FI application, then ethanol may have some virtues, but in a motor desined for pump gas, its detrimental IMO.
TECH Regular
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 416
Likes: 1
From: Minnesota
Minnesota mandates 10% in all pump gas, and they are going to raise it to 20%.
I would run E-85 if I knew it wouldn't hurt anything since it is about $1.70 vs. $2.35 for 91.
E-85 has a minimum octane rating of 104.
I would run E-85 if I knew it wouldn't hurt anything since it is about $1.70 vs. $2.35 for 91.
E-85 has a minimum octane rating of 104.
Originally Posted by Muffracing
Minnesota mandates 10% in all pump gas, and they are going to raise it to 20%.
I would run E-85 if I knew it wouldn't hurt anything since it is about $1.70 vs. $2.35 for 91.
E-85 has a minimum octane rating of 104.
I would run E-85 if I knew it wouldn't hurt anything since it is about $1.70 vs. $2.35 for 91.
E-85 has a minimum octane rating of 104.
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Originally Posted by rush7
I thought a vehicle had to be designed to run on the E-85. Some of our work trucks proudly advertise the ability to run that fuel.
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This is not a bad thing here. They're starting to do this in professional motorsports. They've quietly been sneaking it into INDY cars for awhile now. Yes, your engine will be just fine in these amounts. Ethanol has a 108 octane rating. There won't be any compatability problems with fuel components. If you have your car tuned to the dime, you will benefit by retuning to this new fuel. It's a new animal all together.
so what i'm guessing here, for the e-10 that seems to screw so many of our vehicles, they probably take the worst gas they could find, throw some ethanol in, and call it higher octane...when if 10% eth gas was brewed with 91 or 93 to begin with (which would raise those numbers by around 2 (real) points a piece), it would be much better?
just my guess, but the 89 version of e-10 unleaded gas would have to start out as 87, then add the ethanol, and call it 89..........since it started out as the low grade stuff to begin with, and still exists as 90% such, this would make sense why it doesn't run up to standard.
based on this line of thinking, 85% might not be that bad since it's mostly ethanol, and at a much higher octane rating...(except that the energy per unit volume of ethanol is lower than gasoline)
interesting
just my guess, but the 89 version of e-10 unleaded gas would have to start out as 87, then add the ethanol, and call it 89..........since it started out as the low grade stuff to begin with, and still exists as 90% such, this would make sense why it doesn't run up to standard.
based on this line of thinking, 85% might not be that bad since it's mostly ethanol, and at a much higher octane rating...(except that the energy per unit volume of ethanol is lower than gasoline)
interesting
TECH Resident
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 875
Likes: 2
From: Portland Oregon
My C5 Service manual declares do not use gasoline with alcohol additives, it is not compatable with the fuel system. The bosch fuel injector literature says the same thing.
Is ti going to deteriorate the o'rings in the fuel system, or cause corrosion??
Is this stuff really bad for your car. Why have IRL and CART used it for years?
Is ti going to deteriorate the o'rings in the fuel system, or cause corrosion??
Is this stuff really bad for your car. Why have IRL and CART used it for years?
unless the fuel system is designed for ethanol then you cant run over a certain percentage without it damaging components. Pure ethanol is corrosive to most fuel systems but 10% is considered safe. I dont think it would be safe to run 85% in these cars without replacing all the lines, injectors, etc.
Nope. Cannot run high ammounts of ethenol in our vehicles. The fuel system wasn't designed for it. You need Special O-Rings, and lined Fuel tanks and rails.
Even though the Octane rating is higher in Ethenol, it's BTU content is lower. So, you have to run more fuel to attain the same power levels. That is why the VE tables are different and your MPG goes down.
FYI and a By the way, This is why some people swear by race gas that it gives more power. It can if it's BTU content is higher due to the Chemicles used to make-up the fuel. So, in some cases, it can make more power.
Even though the Octane rating is higher in Ethenol, it's BTU content is lower. So, you have to run more fuel to attain the same power levels. That is why the VE tables are different and your MPG goes down.
FYI and a By the way, This is why some people swear by race gas that it gives more power. It can if it's BTU content is higher due to the Chemicles used to make-up the fuel. So, in some cases, it can make more power.
Originally Posted by Richiec77
Nope. Cannot run high ammounts of ethenol in our vehicles. The fuel system wasn't designed for it. You need Special O-Rings, and lined Fuel tanks and rails.
Even though the Octane rating is higher in Ethenol, it's BTU content is lower. So, you have to run more fuel to attain the same power levels. That is why the VE tables are different and your MPG goes down.
FYI and a By the way, This is why some people swear by race gas that it gives more power. It can if it's BTU content is higher due to the Chemicles used to make-up the fuel. So, in some cases, it can make more power.
Even though the Octane rating is higher in Ethenol, it's BTU content is lower. So, you have to run more fuel to attain the same power levels. That is why the VE tables are different and your MPG goes down.
FYI and a By the way, This is why some people swear by race gas that it gives more power. It can if it's BTU content is higher due to the Chemicles used to make-up the fuel. So, in some cases, it can make more power.
How much lower MPG? If gas priced double what e-85 is, would we do better than half the mileage? Also, what about oxygen sensors or is this an open loop only type of thing? I dont think they sell the stuff near me anyway, but i was just curious, especially if you were to go forced induction.
Originally Posted by GuitsBoy
How much lower MPG? If gas priced double what e-85 is, would we do better than half the mileage? Also, what about oxygen sensors or is this an open loop only type of thing? I dont think they sell the stuff near me anyway, but i was just curious, especially if you were to go forced induction.
I'll go and see if I can find where I read this info and get it to ya.
Last edited by Richiec77; Jul 17, 2005 at 11:35 AM.
Originally Posted by GuitsBoy
How much lower MPG? If gas priced double what e-85 is, would we do better than half the mileage? Also, what about oxygen sensors or is this an open loop only type of thing? I dont think they sell the stuff near me anyway, but i was just curious, especially if you were to go forced induction.
Ethanol
Heats of Vaporization (MJ/kg) 0.93
Lower Calorific Value (MJ/kg) 26.8
Boiling Point (oC) 78
Blending Motor Octane No (MON) 95-106
Blending Research Octane No (RON) 112-120
Density (kg/m3) 790
Hope this helps.
Heats of Vaporization (MJ/kg) 0.93
Lower Calorific Value (MJ/kg) 26.8
Boiling Point (oC) 78
Blending Motor Octane No (MON) 95-106
Blending Research Octane No (RON) 112-120
Density (kg/m3) 790
Hope this helps.
This is why I wish manufactuers would start offering vehicles designed to run on propane. All it would take is a tank to hold it at a higher pressure. They have fairly easy ways of filling up with propane. Propane has more BTU's of energy than gasoline for better mileage, burns clean (my car with true duals wouldn't register on a sniffer) which translates to fewer oil changes, burns cooler, and has an octane of 104. No more BS emission checks and big R&D spent toward smog equipment on cars.
http://www.caranddriver.com/article....&page_number=1
I've also heard of a guy with a 5.9 Grand Cherokee getting low 20mpg in the city running it on propane.
Jason
http://www.caranddriver.com/article....&page_number=1
I've also heard of a guy with a 5.9 Grand Cherokee getting low 20mpg in the city running it on propane.
Jason
Is ethanol better than methanol? My go-kart uses methanol, and it just seems that in general, methanol is more widely used in automobiles, especially in motorsports. Maybe i just answered my own question.