quality issues with off-brand/cheap gas?
09-05-2005, 09:47 PM
#1
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quality issues with off-brand/cheap gas? I had been traveling over from PA to the ghetto of trenton to fill my gas up because it was cheaper over there since I got the car. Well, I always thought my car was just slow and needed a tuneup or something cause I put all the mods in my sig into it and it was no faster than my friends car with only a loudmouth. It also hesitated all the time (like at the same pressure on the throttle it was beggin to not pull as hard or pull harder for no reason).
Well...... when the gas prices went up all the sudden it was cheaper to get it in PA so I filled it up at this Sunoco on Lincoln Highway. I was in a bad mood cause it cost almost $50 to fill up my tank so I was drivin like an A hole all the way home. About half-way there I gunned it from a stop light and let me tell you the difference was incredable. WOW! No more problems, more respense, and the FREAKIN SES LIGHT WENT OFF THE NEXT DAY.... wtf.
Ok so here's why I'm posting I got premium, 93 octane, in both places what could be so differnt between the gases that all thsi would happen???
What could they have put in there gas to make my SES light come on????
Is there a possibilty that I severly messed up my car???
Well...... when the gas prices went up all the sudden it was cheaper to get it in PA so I filled it up at this Sunoco on Lincoln Highway. I was in a bad mood cause it cost almost $50 to fill up my tank so I was drivin like an A hole all the way home. About half-way there I gunned it from a stop light and let me tell you the difference was incredable. WOW! No more problems, more respense, and the FREAKIN SES LIGHT WENT OFF THE NEXT DAY.... wtf.
Ok so here's why I'm posting I got premium, 93 octane, in both places what could be so differnt between the gases that all thsi would happen???
What could they have put in there gas to make my SES light come on????
Is there a possibilty that I severly messed up my car???
Last edited by ACW; 09-05-2005 at 11:43 PM. Reason: removing race/religion comments
09-05-2005, 10:10 PM
#2
TECH Resident
i get inconsistent performance at cheap places, too.
i stick with shell and chev since there is no sunoco here.
i stick with shell and chev since there is no sunoco here.
Last edited by ACW; 09-05-2005 at 11:41 PM. Reason: removing response to race/religion comments
09-05-2005, 11:36 PM
#3
TECH Veteran
No more race/religion/stereotype comments here, please.
Yes, it is possible for cheapo gas to cause problems.
http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=7259
http://www.aa1car.com/library/2003/us10325.htm
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90240
Yes, it is possible for cheapo gas to cause problems.
http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=7259
Q--One of my fuel injectors on my 1997 Grand Am failed last week. After I replaced it for $70 plus the gaskets and over an hour of labor I checked the old one. It pulsed okay with a 1.5-volt battery but was gummed up. Obviously, the other five injectors are not far from the same fate. Do I add cleaner to the gas tank? Do I change from off-brand gas? ...
A-- ... Yes, add a good fuel-injector cleaner such as Chevron Techron or Gold Eagle 104 Octane Boost (which actually has good cleaners) to the tank. Stop buying the cheap gas and consider buying some brand-name premium such as Amoco or Shell that has a healthy dose of cleaners. ...
A-- ... Yes, add a good fuel-injector cleaner such as Chevron Techron or Gold Eagle 104 Octane Boost (which actually has good cleaners) to the tank. Stop buying the cheap gas and consider buying some brand-name premium such as Amoco or Shell that has a healthy dose of cleaners. ...
...
Cheap Gas
The main issue with gasoline that fails to keep a vehicle’s fuel system clean is quality (or the lack thereof). To save a few pennies per gallon and increase the competitive margin (or profit margin) of his product, a gasoline supplier may choose to reduce or even eliminate the amount of dispersant-detergent additives in his fuel. Or, he may choose to use a less-effective product or one that causes other kinds of problems.
Commonly used deposit-control additives include polysibutylamine, polyisbutylene succinimide and polyisobutylene phenylamine. But these same additives also can build up on intake valve stems causing them to stick. To prevent this from happening, additional additives called "fluidizers" also must be added to the fuel. But over time, these can contribute to the formation of combustion chamber deposits that raise compression and the engine’s octane requirements.
One of the best additives is polyetheramine. It keeps injectors, valves and combustion chambers clean without the help of any additional fluidizers - but it costs more than twice as much as the other commonly used additives.
How much additive does it take to provide an adequate level of protection? Industry sources say the recommended level is about 1,000 parts per million (ppm) of dispersant-detergent in the fuel - which costs the gasoline supplier less than a penny a gallon. Even so, as much as 85% of the gasoline that’s being sold contains only one-tenth the recommended dosage, or only 100 ppm of additive. Consequently, bad gas is good for the repair business.
When people use gasoline that does not keep their fuel system clean, their injectors gradually clog up with varnish deposits. Some injectors (mostly the older pintle and nozzle style) are more vulnerable to clogging than others. It’s not something most motorists notice right away because it takes time for the deposits to accumulate. But with every drive cycle, the accumulation of deposits gradually restricts the nozzle orifice causing a reduction in fuel delivery.
Deposits also disrupt the injector’s normal spray pattern, which interferes with fuel atomization and mixing. This results in a lean fuel mixture that may cause the engine to misfire, idle poorly, and hesitate or even stall when accelerating.
It doesn’t take much of a restriction in an injector to lean out the fuel mixture. Only an 8-10% restriction in a single fuel injector can be enough to cause a misfire.
...
Gas Pains
Low-octane gasoline involves a couple of different issues. One is outright fraud on the part of some gasoline retailers and distributors. Most states have a department of weights and measures that makes sure filling station pumps are accurately calibrated so patrons get a full gallon when they pay for a gallon. But most states have no way of policing fuel quality to make sure it meets the rated octane. Consequently, there’s a big temptation to sell regular octane fuel at a mid-range or premium price.
...
As the octane rating goes up, so does the price. Most pumps mix regular and premium to deliver the mid-range grade. There have been cases where people have tampered with pumps to change the mixture ratios for a more profitable blend. But the more common scam is to simply fill the underground "premium" tank with regular, or to dilute it with a few hundred gallons of lower octane fuel. It’s a scam that’s hard to detect.
...
Dirty Gas
Another problem you may encounter from time to time is gas that’s been contaminated with dirt, water or other liquids. Many filling station pumps have a filter that keeps dirt and corrosion that has settled in underground tanks from getting into their customer’s fuel tanks - assuming they maintain the filters properly. But these filters won’t remove water. Alcohol attracts water, and if there’s enough water present it can make the alcohol separate from gasoline.
Underground tanks have to meet stringent EPA requirements to prevent fuel leakage and soil contamination. Regular inspections are a must to ensure their integrity. But nothing is perfect and tanks sometimes leak and allow moisture to seep inside.
...
Cheap Gas
The main issue with gasoline that fails to keep a vehicle’s fuel system clean is quality (or the lack thereof). To save a few pennies per gallon and increase the competitive margin (or profit margin) of his product, a gasoline supplier may choose to reduce or even eliminate the amount of dispersant-detergent additives in his fuel. Or, he may choose to use a less-effective product or one that causes other kinds of problems.
Commonly used deposit-control additives include polysibutylamine, polyisbutylene succinimide and polyisobutylene phenylamine. But these same additives also can build up on intake valve stems causing them to stick. To prevent this from happening, additional additives called "fluidizers" also must be added to the fuel. But over time, these can contribute to the formation of combustion chamber deposits that raise compression and the engine’s octane requirements.
One of the best additives is polyetheramine. It keeps injectors, valves and combustion chambers clean without the help of any additional fluidizers - but it costs more than twice as much as the other commonly used additives.
How much additive does it take to provide an adequate level of protection? Industry sources say the recommended level is about 1,000 parts per million (ppm) of dispersant-detergent in the fuel - which costs the gasoline supplier less than a penny a gallon. Even so, as much as 85% of the gasoline that’s being sold contains only one-tenth the recommended dosage, or only 100 ppm of additive. Consequently, bad gas is good for the repair business.
When people use gasoline that does not keep their fuel system clean, their injectors gradually clog up with varnish deposits. Some injectors (mostly the older pintle and nozzle style) are more vulnerable to clogging than others. It’s not something most motorists notice right away because it takes time for the deposits to accumulate. But with every drive cycle, the accumulation of deposits gradually restricts the nozzle orifice causing a reduction in fuel delivery.
Deposits also disrupt the injector’s normal spray pattern, which interferes with fuel atomization and mixing. This results in a lean fuel mixture that may cause the engine to misfire, idle poorly, and hesitate or even stall when accelerating.
It doesn’t take much of a restriction in an injector to lean out the fuel mixture. Only an 8-10% restriction in a single fuel injector can be enough to cause a misfire.
...
Gas Pains
Low-octane gasoline involves a couple of different issues. One is outright fraud on the part of some gasoline retailers and distributors. Most states have a department of weights and measures that makes sure filling station pumps are accurately calibrated so patrons get a full gallon when they pay for a gallon. But most states have no way of policing fuel quality to make sure it meets the rated octane. Consequently, there’s a big temptation to sell regular octane fuel at a mid-range or premium price.
...
As the octane rating goes up, so does the price. Most pumps mix regular and premium to deliver the mid-range grade. There have been cases where people have tampered with pumps to change the mixture ratios for a more profitable blend. But the more common scam is to simply fill the underground "premium" tank with regular, or to dilute it with a few hundred gallons of lower octane fuel. It’s a scam that’s hard to detect.
...
Dirty Gas
Another problem you may encounter from time to time is gas that’s been contaminated with dirt, water or other liquids. Many filling station pumps have a filter that keeps dirt and corrosion that has settled in underground tanks from getting into their customer’s fuel tanks - assuming they maintain the filters properly. But these filters won’t remove water. Alcohol attracts water, and if there’s enough water present it can make the alcohol separate from gasoline.
Underground tanks have to meet stringent EPA requirements to prevent fuel leakage and soil contamination. Regular inspections are a must to ensure their integrity. But nothing is perfect and tanks sometimes leak and allow moisture to seep inside.
...
...
Growing up my dad always told me to fill the car up with Chevron gas. It was the best and you would have fewer problems with your vehicle. So I did. A few years ago I had a Ford Expedition and decided that I needed to by cheaper gas to fill up the tank. So I started going to Costco. Of course months later I went to get it serviced and all the filters needed to be changed a lot sooner than normal. I asked what would cause this and they said the gas. I switched back to Chevron after that and never had any more problems.
...
You have NO idea what the additive package is from Costco. With a name brand store, they ware selling THAT gas, or they can lose their affiliation as a couple locally have. Costco may have a good additive package or it may not, or they may spot buy so that you never know what you are getting day to day.
...
Costco in your area may be getting BP refined gas but does not get any of the BP detergents/additives. This is critical for maintaining your valves and fuel injection system clean. You do in fact get what you pay for.
...
branded stations get a specific additive package for that brand that is added as the tanker truck is filled.
Generic stations get left over branded gas, non-branded gas, and mixtures of various stuff, and of course what is in the tank is a mix of various products. Tough to know what you are getting.
...
I hate to say this, but you get what you pay for! It is true that gasoline is gasoline. What is not true is that they are not all equal. Unless you are buying from a branded outlet you are getting house grade gasoline with minimum additives.
...
Additives are added at local distribution points (usually when loading it onto the truck) and, they can make a difference (the detergent stuff evidentally does work).
...
Growing up my dad always told me to fill the car up with Chevron gas. It was the best and you would have fewer problems with your vehicle. So I did. A few years ago I had a Ford Expedition and decided that I needed to by cheaper gas to fill up the tank. So I started going to Costco. Of course months later I went to get it serviced and all the filters needed to be changed a lot sooner than normal. I asked what would cause this and they said the gas. I switched back to Chevron after that and never had any more problems.
...
You have NO idea what the additive package is from Costco. With a name brand store, they ware selling THAT gas, or they can lose their affiliation as a couple locally have. Costco may have a good additive package or it may not, or they may spot buy so that you never know what you are getting day to day.
...
Costco in your area may be getting BP refined gas but does not get any of the BP detergents/additives. This is critical for maintaining your valves and fuel injection system clean. You do in fact get what you pay for.
...
branded stations get a specific additive package for that brand that is added as the tanker truck is filled.
Generic stations get left over branded gas, non-branded gas, and mixtures of various stuff, and of course what is in the tank is a mix of various products. Tough to know what you are getting.
...
I hate to say this, but you get what you pay for! It is true that gasoline is gasoline. What is not true is that they are not all equal. Unless you are buying from a branded outlet you are getting house grade gasoline with minimum additives.
...
Additives are added at local distribution points (usually when loading it onto the truck) and, they can make a difference (the detergent stuff evidentally does work).
...
Last edited by ACW; 09-05-2005 at 11:44 PM.
