10% ethanol Gas, performance?
04-29-2006, 11:49 AM
#41
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You know what I love, how people quote things from the news. Did any of you see the South Park on Wednesday? If you did, you know where I am going with this!!!
Has anyone ever noticed how the news channels tend to report all bad with very little good? Is this really the world we live in or is it a small percentage of the world happenings that get reported while the rest of us go on caring for each other?
Lets take what any news channel reports with a grain of salt. I mean, I wouldn't want to offend anybody because we all know that whatever they report is 100% the truth.
Has anyone ever noticed how the news channels tend to report all bad with very little good? Is this really the world we live in or is it a small percentage of the world happenings that get reported while the rest of us go on caring for each other?
Lets take what any news channel reports with a grain of salt. I mean, I wouldn't want to offend anybody because we all know that whatever they report is 100% the truth.
05-03-2006, 10:59 AM
#42
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ethanol isn't going to hurt all of your stupid cars 
. ny has been using it for a while and same with pa- i use it all of the time with no ill effects.
as far as gas milage- well i think that issue was addressed in an earlier post.
. ny has been using it for a while and same with pa- i use it all of the time with no ill effects.as far as gas milage- well i think that issue was addressed in an earlier post.
05-04-2006, 12:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Texas_WS6
They use to put what is called a pig in the line to keep the fuel separate, but not anymore.
Each grade of gasoline has a seperate line.... The additive packages are what makes fuels different. Additive packages are different for every supplier...
High fuel prices are a direct result of market speculation(Iraq, Iran) and manipulation(EPA regs,taxes etc). Also 8.5% percent profit on 3.00 dollars is a hell of alot better than 8.5% of a buck. Hence the HUGE current profits. Oil companies dont set the prices but they sure as hell are enjoying them.
And gas is still cheap here in the states.
Did I leave anything out?
Last edited by cantdrv65; 05-04-2006 at 12:51 AM.
05-04-2006, 02:01 AM
#44
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it has a detergrent in it will stir up any dirt in your tank can cause dirty injecters i have lawn busniess sunco accounts as my client they told me this
05-04-2006, 07:58 AM
#45
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I know my uncle told me that YEARS ago (I'm talking like the 50's and 60's) they used the Ethenol gas and it was corroding the fuel lines back then, and making it harder to maintain the cars. Correct me if I'm wrong
05-04-2006, 08:41 AM
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This is an interesting thread.....
10% ethanol gasoline won't hurt any current production vehicle (or one built in the last 10 years). Reason is that some states (like my home state of Maryland) have been using a Winter gasoline blend that contains 10% ethanol for many years (stipulated by MD law). Auto makers have designed their fuel systems to tolerate 10% ethanol, which isn't all that corrosive compared to normal gasoline.
E85 and any Methanol blends are significantly more corrosive, so changing to them without making any changes isn't recommended.
Fuel economy:
Here's where alot of the myths are located. You will get lower fuel economy with any ethanol or methanol blend. The reason has absolutely nothing to do with BTU content, Octane rating, compression ratio, or where the stuff was made.
It all has to do with chemistry. Some of you guys know that on gasoline, 14.7 parts air to 1 part gasoline is the Stoichiometric ratio. Thats the theoretical perfect combustion ratio. Best power is achieved at somewhere around 12:1 and best economy is achieved around 17:1. During acceleration, our fuel injection systems run at about 12:1 and during cruise they shoot for 14.7:1. Why don't they shoot for 17:1, you ask? Because at 17:1 you end up with high oxides of nitrogen emissions (not to be confused with nitrous oxide).
Anyway, the problem with Alcohol (ethanol or methanol) is the Stoichiometric ratio is lower. The stoichiometric ratio is around 9:1. Which means that if you adjust to have correct combustion (using O2 sensors) you use more fuel.
10% ethanol blends will use somewhere around 3.5% to 4% more fuel because of that fact, and you'll loose a similar amount of fuel economy. If you're getting 20mpg, expect to get 19mpg.
Because of the stoichiometric ratio problem, and the need to inject significantly more fuel, you just can't change over to E85 or M85. The fuel injectors need to be bigger by about 30% in order to inject the additional fuel (to keep the engine from running lean).
This is not to say that ethanol or methanol fuels are a bad thing. You can make the same or more power with them as you can with straight gasoline, assuming your car is set up the same. And if you make changes to accomodate E85, you can make more power (by upping compression and taking advantage of the additional octane rating). But with fixed displacement and cruise rpm (which is dependent upon gears & tire size) fuel economy will go down.
'JustDreamin'
10% ethanol gasoline won't hurt any current production vehicle (or one built in the last 10 years). Reason is that some states (like my home state of Maryland) have been using a Winter gasoline blend that contains 10% ethanol for many years (stipulated by MD law). Auto makers have designed their fuel systems to tolerate 10% ethanol, which isn't all that corrosive compared to normal gasoline.
E85 and any Methanol blends are significantly more corrosive, so changing to them without making any changes isn't recommended.
Fuel economy:
Here's where alot of the myths are located. You will get lower fuel economy with any ethanol or methanol blend. The reason has absolutely nothing to do with BTU content, Octane rating, compression ratio, or where the stuff was made.
It all has to do with chemistry. Some of you guys know that on gasoline, 14.7 parts air to 1 part gasoline is the Stoichiometric ratio. Thats the theoretical perfect combustion ratio. Best power is achieved at somewhere around 12:1 and best economy is achieved around 17:1. During acceleration, our fuel injection systems run at about 12:1 and during cruise they shoot for 14.7:1. Why don't they shoot for 17:1, you ask? Because at 17:1 you end up with high oxides of nitrogen emissions (not to be confused with nitrous oxide).
Anyway, the problem with Alcohol (ethanol or methanol) is the Stoichiometric ratio is lower. The stoichiometric ratio is around 9:1. Which means that if you adjust to have correct combustion (using O2 sensors) you use more fuel.
10% ethanol blends will use somewhere around 3.5% to 4% more fuel because of that fact, and you'll loose a similar amount of fuel economy. If you're getting 20mpg, expect to get 19mpg.
Because of the stoichiometric ratio problem, and the need to inject significantly more fuel, you just can't change over to E85 or M85. The fuel injectors need to be bigger by about 30% in order to inject the additional fuel (to keep the engine from running lean).
This is not to say that ethanol or methanol fuels are a bad thing. You can make the same or more power with them as you can with straight gasoline, assuming your car is set up the same. And if you make changes to accomodate E85, you can make more power (by upping compression and taking advantage of the additional octane rating). But with fixed displacement and cruise rpm (which is dependent upon gears & tire size) fuel economy will go down.
'JustDreamin'
05-04-2006, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by MSURacing
"Its a simple question of weight ratios!! A 5 ounce bird could not carry a 1 pound coconut!!!"
10, 450, cars, combustion, conversion, current, e10, e85, ethanol, gas, gasoline, hurting, ltr, performance, performancegoogle, stoichiometric
