One Of Many

iTrader: (2)

sorry, ya I ment boost. Wtih e85 and tune what do you think is safe to run on a all stock motor?

ToplessRed

NO! Read your owners manual.
More info go to : http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/pdfs/41597.pdf

vaticano

iTrader: (8)

I am runnig 10#'s on the stock short block, ie. pistons rods crank. 10#'s on a bone stock motor would be less air flow/Horse power, then on my H/C/I motor but to be safe 8#'s would be better. But as many will tell you even 1# is more than the motor was built for. So you take a risk no matter how much or little you boost it. Myself I like to push the limits and do what I'm told I can't. I'm trying to hit 800 rwhp, corrected, before I replace the motor. You learn more from your own experience than someone else's opinion. Most people say 500-600 hp at the motor. It would seem that it's hard to have a bad tune with E-85, at least as far as blowing up the motor.

WRONG! You already use 10% in your gas now. I'm not worried about the EPA certifing my vehicle. If you don't believe it, then don't use it. It will keep the demand down and the supply up, thus keeping the price down. Thanks for your help.

2SLO4ME

iTrader: (39)

Just wanted to let everyone know that I am getting my car tuned for E-85 next Friday and I'm so f'n excited! I am also getting it tuned for 93 Octane too if I don't happen to be around a E-85 station when I need to fill up. But I'll let everyone know how it goes and what my power difference is between 93 and E-85 and what my mpg difference between 93 and E-85.

Runn

Good advice... listen to us that have used for the last five years or soo...

Runn

Post the info when you find out.

Lonnies Performance

iTrader: (16)

From what I have seen, if you have an engine that was set up for pump gas & tuned for peak power, you can see up to 10% additional torque in the midrange, as well as 3-5% peak HP by using E85. This is based on an engine optimized for pump fuel where the power gains are because of the different fuel only.

Now, if you have an octane limited motor where you retard timing & limit boost because of poor octane, you can see a lot more power. Many boosted cars can see 12-15hp per degree of timing & 20-25HP per # of boost. This is where E85 can give you a big power increase.

Since I deal with fuel systems, I'm seeing similar feedback from a few shops converting cars to E85 that have used my pump kits.

rickou812

iTrader: (10)

Not trying to hijack thread, but have 2 questions.

Question #1:
How much water 'in solution' would be too much? We are talking about ethanol which if it is used for consumption it is measured as 'Proof'.
The difference in "proof" is water content. 100 proof is 50% ethanol and 50% water.
200 proof is 100% ethanol.
Does anyone have any idea how much water would be acceptable...
Would 190 proof work?
The reason I ask is...
Being from the south I may have heard of people distilling their own Ethanol, but also heard it is very difficult to distill much above 190 proof..
Just curious as to whether mixing 190 proof ethanol with the proper amount of gasoline to make E85 would work?

Question #2:
I saw this asked earlier in the thread, but did not see an answer.
What percentage of ethanol when mixed with gas could be used to raise octane.
X amount of ethanol to x amount of 87octane gas = ?octane


Rick

rickou812

iTrader: (10)

Another thought about tuning for Ethanol and switching back to gas.
Could a MAF translater provide enough tunability to tune for E85? If so, it would be easy to go from gas to ethanol and back to gas again.

I know a wide band would be necessary to tune this way, but I have both already installed on my car ........
Just thinking out loud here.... Is it possible?

Lonnies Performance

iTrader: (16)

No water is permissible.

Any water will cause the alcohol to mix with the water & separate from the gasoline. A few drops of water would be OK in the tank, but purposely adding anything that is not considered 100% alcohol would be a mistake.

fil131

iTrader: (2)

I have an answer to question 1 of your post,

Just like any mixture of fuels you want to think of it as octane/gallon.

If you have 3 gallons of 87 octane fuel and 1 gallon of e85 and mix together you add the octane of the 2 gallons together and devide by the amount of gallons. I.e. 87octane+87octane+87octane+106octane= 367 total octane
367 total octane/4gallons= 91.75 octane after 3:1 mixture

This can be used to mix any amount of gasoline to gasoline or to e85 mix, like I said think of it as gallons to octane.

Filbert

2SLO4ME

iTrader: (39)

Here is the link to the thread with my E-85 results:

93 octane and E-85 Dyno Tune numbers

OUTLAWZ RACING

iTrader: (9)

I mix 50/50 of e85 and 93 pump. No tuning just drove the car for two days with no wide open throttle. Just by the seat of the pants feel and the tone of the motor the mix was the sht!. No tune WOT with the wide band read 12.8 all the way to 6k. The car felt real strong. I bet with a tune and more mods it would be worth it to go full e85. Oh the car has a cold air kit and a cut out and 3.73 gears. Z28 a4

Gold Phoenix

iTrader: (1)

I have some questions. I asked Runn directly, but haven't a response. I want to convert my stock T/A to E85. I have 37# injectors that I am going to install, will that be enough? When I up the injector size, do I change the flow rate in the PCM? Did you use the stock spark plugs or did you use a different heat range? What about the gap? Also, my tune is factory, could more tuning help regain some of the lost fuel economy? I read that the you said that the stock o2 sensors can help tune down low. For high power pulls over 3500rpm, what do you recommend doing to keep the tune safe? Is there anything else you suggest other than stated on your thread? I am not going to read the whole thing, it is easier just to ask and someone to answer. Later, I might install some headers, y-pipe, and D1SC kit with 60# injector, but I would like to take small steps.

2SLO4ME

iTrader: (39)

I would say that 37 lbs might be on the small side, people say to go now lower than 42lbs. Since you have a nice sized engine I would go with 60lbs right away, that is what I am running now and I have a stock cubic inch motor with some nice heads and cam. The injectors work great with my setup, the tuner was able to tune them for idle with no problems.

By the way since you live in the Indianaplois area I would hit up Ron a Pro Dyno Tech in Crawfordsville, IN for a E-85 tune. I was just down there last week to get my tune and I drove away with great numbers (look in sig for numbers).

Anyways as for what to actually do for the tune, I am not sure I'm not really tune-savvy that's why I had someone else do it.

The plugs I am using are AC Delco Iridiums with whatever gap they come with. I tried measuring the gap but I couldn't really do it without scratching the iridium, but I think it was something like .03"

As for O2 sensors Mine are stock, there new, but there stock.

Anyways sounds like you're going to have a monster some day.

vaticano

iTrader: (8)

For a stock motor 37# injectors are fine. Just change the injector flow rate to match the injectors. Set the AFR for stoich to 9.765:1. I used the stock plug gap with NGK tr6 plugs.You can run the tune lean for part throttle operation to gain a bit of the lost mpg. I run mine 10% lean, a high flow air filter will help as well. If it's an A4 you can tweak the tranny settings also.. The tune will be safe at 15-20% more fuel over stoich, 8.4:1-8:1 AFR.

Didn't see the 402. 60's would be better, I was useing 42's and made over 500 uncorected rwhp with them but was real lean 14:1 at 6000 rpm

rickou812

iTrader: (10)

No opinions..

Gold Phoenix

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the info. Sorry for the confusion, but my T/A is not listed in my sig. It is mostly stock except for suspension, wheels, Flowmaster muffler, 85mm MAF, and intake lid. My '01 Formula that has the 402 is also FI with a F1R and I have 96# injectors, -8 fuel lines, and dual 255L/hr pumps. When I switch on that car, which is not that far away, it will be ready. Again, thanks for answering my questions.

Gold Phoenix

iTrader: (1)

Well, I did the leap today to E85. Last night, I installed some TR6IX plugs, new wires, and 37# injectors. I drove the car today as far as I could to get as much of the gasoline before I fill it up with E85. I noticed that it stumbles alittle when I start it up. Is this something for the PCM to get use to or do I need to do some fine tuning on startup? Other than that, HPT Scanner is showing very little adjustment on the STFT and LTFT. I haven't really tried some WOT pulls yet. I figure I would give the fuel system and PCM a chance to adujust to the new fuel before I try. I have also noticed that my exhaust tone is alittle quieter. Even on a 45mph cruise with the windows down, I barely heard the exhaust and I have a Flowmaster muffler on this car.

2000Firehawk

iTrader: (248)

Hay,
I just did my 1998 Z28 automatic too this past Saturday the 17th
12.7x @ 110MPH on 93 gasoline, "bolt-on" car.

I'm on stock 28.8# injectors right now, & have tested all out, with no power problems.
Injector duty cycle of 118 on top, 6,200RPM ... but AFR ok....
Feels like 10-20 more HP. added 4 degrees everywhere.

On a full 1/4 mile pass I will be at 100 % + duty cycle for 1 second at the top of 1st gear, & 2 seconds at the top of 2nd gear, after looking at my log files... I may just go to the track & try it...

I know that I shouldn't , but I did... until my new 42# injectors come in on Wednesday...

BUT, with the cooling effect of E85 Any stock 'bolt-on' LS1 should be able to get by with the stock 28.8# injectors, because how long are you really over 100%.....

100% duty cycle reached at 5,000 RPM.

I too have hard start/ cold idle issues that need addressed with cranking + cold idle tables.... anyone know which tables to change, & by how much....