myfast70

iTrader: (38)

Not according to Racetronix. I'm still waiting for them to answer my above post. I think you're right too.

The Dragon

iTrader: (6)

Sorry to hear about your dilemma

For how many years and miles did you run your pump before the alleged failure?

I suppose I've been fortunate since my Racetronix pump has been on my Firehawk supporting +450 rwhp for over 50,000 miles and 3 or 4 years with no issues

I've been running it through FAST 36 lb. injectors for the past year and a half and ~15K miles FYI

ArcticZ28

iTrader: (14)

That's what it is. Their response was that they didn't want people to think just ANY walbro pump could go in there.

And for the record, my pump lasted about 300 miles.

Racetronix

iTrader: (2)

Our ad outlines in detail what features the Racetronix pump assembly has to offer vs. a standard off-the-shelf Walbro. If a standard Walbro pump were to be used the factory jet pump system would be disabled.

All Walbro pumps are tested at the factory. Racetronix runs random QC checks as well which is far more than most vendors offer.

As stated numerous times before, 9/10 pumps sent back to us have nothing wrong with them. The problem is usually installation / vehicle related.

There should be no reason why one customer can run their pump for 4 years / 50,000mi (which accounts for 99%+ of our customers) and the next person 300 mi. It all comes down to how it was installed and used.

ArcticZ28, did you send your pump in to be examined and tested?

ArcticZ28

iTrader: (14)

No, it was at a time when others were posting up with the same problems and I didn't feel like going through the whole return process after hearing that most were told it must have been install/operation error.

This all begs the question of, if there was proper research and testing done on these, why are they apparently so easy to install or operate improperly? Much of the R&D process is providing error avoidance, which it doesn't sound like much was built into these. If this were a problem with many other pumps, it would just be the nature of the beast. However, I don't quite see that. Maybe I only have a limited view of the fuel pump market, so please feel free to prove me wrong. I just don't see how something so vital to the car can fail so easily, whether it be user or construction error.

Racetronix

iTrader: (2)

Seeing as you are not new to these forums we are sure you know that most of what you read on here has to be taken with a grain of salt. In many cases things are blown way out of proportion on here. It is up to you as the customer to make the first move by contacting your Racetronix dealer or our support dept. Since you did not exercise your warranty we will never know what the actual problem was. We have manufactured over 5000 F-Body systems and the vast majority of them have been in operation for years without problems.


Your insight into this problem is limited. Most people do not run into problems. The only time you hear anything on this forum is when someone has problem. 99%+ of the people who are happy never post or don't even get on the forums. Keep in mind we sell 100's of these systems every month.

There are many ways a customer can mess up a fuel pump installation. Our manual has a great amount of detail with color pictures. Many people don't bother reading the manual which is evident by some of the support questions we get. This is unfortunate as the details are everything when it comes to avoiding problems. We could make our manual the size of an encyclopedia to help unskilled people avoid problems but would they read it and if they did would they follow it? We always tell people to flush their tanks and not to use the trap-door method but people do as they please. We tell customers not to use E85 but they do not listen. It is all about using common sense and being thorough which comes with training and experience. This scenario is not unlike asking why two people can install the same camshaft made on the same day and one runs for 100,000+ miles and one doesn't make it much beyond break-in.

The proof is in the sheer numbers out there running fine. To put things into perspective we get more pump callbacks on older f-body cars as a percentage of the numbers sold. This is because of old metal tanks being full of junk or because the tanks do not have a proper seal and they are left to sit during the winter months with condensation in the tank. In the spring customers go to start their cars and the pump is seized up. Customers automatically assume it is a defective pump because they did not put any miles on it so when we try to explain that their pump was corroded inside they have trouble understanding how it could happen and why the pump can not tolerate that type of neglect.

1QUIKWS6

iTrader: (61)

I totally agree with your position - but have one question:

What type of pump is the stocker? Is it vane or geroter?

If it is vane instead of geroter, then obviously that style is much more forgiving to debris and condensation (I have used the stocker for 7 years now - never putting more than 5K miles/year, sometimes only 600mi, car sets in unheated garage for winter months with no precautions other than addition of fuel stabilizer) with absolutely no problems - car fires up 1st time, every time and I have never drained/flushed tank, nor changed out filter strainers on fuel bucket. Albeit the vane style may not be conducive to high performance such as the geroter.

If it is geroter like Walbro - then I don't understand the differences in how they must be treated?

Again, this is just me, trying to understand the operational differences between the stock pump and Walbro pump - be it yours, or anyone elses.

KCFormula

iTrader: (4)

Sorry if this is too far off subject but why is this? I have a racetronix PnP system still in the box right in front of me. Should I go another route?

ArcticZ28

iTrader: (14)

No, I completely understand that you only hear about the bad, and rarely the good. A car forum is often like a news station, shock factor gains more interest than a success story. I know the percentage that do fail is belittled by the amount that don't. My only question is as to why it sounds like it is so easy to screw up an install. Every time you hear of one failing, you have Walbro suppliers/dealers asking things like "did you let it run below 1/4 of a tank". Something like that should not matter for a fuel pump. I would think that would be something considered in the earliest phases of design. Of course people are going to let it run below 1/4 tank and it's a bit unnerving that operating your car normally like this would cause a pump to fail. I had mine installed by someone who's been installing them for years. While I obviously can't say for 100% certainty that it was installed correctly, I would be inclined to think it was. In my situation, it wasn't worth my time to send it back and see what was wrong and what had failed. The onus was completely on me on that one. I'm certainly not telling people not to buy it, I mean, I run one myself. Most of that has to do with a benefit/cost ratio, but regardless I do run a Walbro. The one I have now is holding up fine, as far as I can tell. Anything that is manufactured is going to have its pro's and con's. I just don't quite understand some of the con's of this pump that, at times, introduce more hazards than benefits. I would assume you don't make these, you just sell them. I apologize if that's an incorrect assumption. But, either way, it would be nice to have some sort of explanation from the manufacturer as to why these limitations are on such a popular pump.

Racetronix

iTrader: (2)

The base materials used to make the Walbro HP pumps are not resistant enough to E85's alcohol content in order for them to pass certification. You may need to get OE flex-fuel pumps and pair them up for the volume you require. Some people use the Walbro pumps with E85 but this is at their own risk/expense.

Racetronix

iTrader: (2)

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1QUIKWS6

I totally agree with your position - but have one question:

The factory pump is a vane type:
http://www.racetronix.com/Fuel_Pump_Ident.html



We sell more Walbro replacement pump kits in late spring / early summer than any other time of year because customers are replacing failed factory pumps. This is more common in older cars with metal tanks. As the cars with plastic tanks age we expect to see the same trend because gaskets will dry up allowing moisture in and debris being pumped in from gas station holding tanks will build up. Using fuel stabilizer and topping up your tank is a smart move. Many people consistently run their tanks low and park their cars or leave the fuel system unsealed over the winter while their motors are being done. In the spring we see a steady stream of corroded pumps and injectors.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1QUIKWS6

Albeit the vane style may not be conducive to high performance such as the geroter. If it is geroter like Walbro - then I don't understand the differences in how they must be treated?

Our web ad covers what type of pump we use in detail.

All this info is assuming pump failure BUT we can not emphasize enough that in MOST cases the few pumps sent back to us have nothing wrong with them. Most customers do not have the technical training and tools to properly diagnose these new pump systems so part-swapping is their preferred method. In the older cars it is easy to block off lines and check pressures, bleed-down etc. In new cars with plastic lines and push-lock fittings it requires special tools and a good understanding of how the system operates.

Racetronix

iTrader: (2)

It is easy to screw up an install because too many people think the job is simple and that attitude is what gets them into trouble. Many people open the manual AFTER they run into trouble. The pictures and wording in our manual are very carefully thought out. For example when the manual says "Slip the flex tube over the module's outlet barb making sure it is fully bottomed. Tighten the gear clamp in the position shown to avoid installation obstructions. Do not over tighten the gear clamp. Snug will do!". it means just that. Many people do not bottom the tube and/or over tighten the clamp. Some people use pliers to push the tube on and manage to deform or puncture it. We then get e-mails about how the system does not hold pressure etc. and how they think the pump is defective. Some people remove our connector and try to use the factory one and inadvertently reverse the polarity of the pump. They end up having to pull the tank down again. Obviously we get e-mails about a DOA pump first. We can go on and on about all the stuff we get e-mails about. Eventually much of this info will be added to a support forum which is in the works.

The Racetronix system can be run below 1/4 tank BUT we do not recommend extended bouts of heavy acceleration under 1/4 tank. The bucket does have a finite reserve capacity as well as a recovery time. The more HP a motor makes, the more fuel it will use and the quicker the bucket will be emptied. All too many people push their cars while the tank has not much other than fumes left and this is where the problems start to develop.

We do not make the Walbro pumps. We test them and add the proper hardware to make them F99 application specific.