Pinion nut torque question
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 24,241
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From: Turnin' Wrenches Infractions: 005
Will what I'm dong affect the backlash at all?no This is where my problem seems to be, I haven't touched the carrier yet but it seems the gears are right up against each other. You need a dial indicator and base to measure backlash Should I get some gear paint and see what kind of pattern is made?Yes, good idea
I'm no expert, and I'm asking because I need to know too.
can that be right?
everything I've read would indicate that simply tightening the nut to 20 inch/pounds would not nearly be enough to crush the new sleeve.thats correct, it takes 100+ foot/pounds to crush some sleeves
do you mean to crank the nut down hard until have have 20 inch/pounds of resistance spinning the yoke with the carrier removed?Yes, exactly
can that be right?
everything I've read would indicate that simply tightening the nut to 20 inch/pounds would not nearly be enough to crush the new sleeve.thats correct, it takes 100+ foot/pounds to crush some sleeves
do you mean to crank the nut down hard until have have 20 inch/pounds of resistance spinning the yoke with the carrier removed?Yes, exactly
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 24,241
Likes: 89
From: Turnin' Wrenches Infractions: 005
Here's some write-ups I referenced when I was learning.
http://www.vernco.com/rearaxle5/index.htm
http://www.jawsgear.com/tech_kits.php
http://www.greenfries.info/rear_gear.htm
http://www.keliente.com/gears1.htm
http://www.vernco.com/rearaxle5/index.htm
http://www.jawsgear.com/tech_kits.php
http://www.greenfries.info/rear_gear.htm
http://www.keliente.com/gears1.htm
I would definitely get some gear paint to check your pattern. You also need to dial indicator to check your backlash as 01ssreda4 said above. By feel it may seem like they are "right up against" each other but keep in mind that the distance you are measuring is thousandths of an inch, which in my opinion is impossible to measure by "feel". I had a friend put a rear together by feel and it lasted about 10 miles before it completely seized up. It is best to measure this stuff and know for sure. You can turn a $300 ring and pinion set into a paperweight really quick if you don't know what you are doing, ask me how I know this!
but I needed it, what can you do. Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 24,241
Likes: 89
From: Turnin' Wrenches Infractions: 005
Its Permatex Prussian Blue. I would definitely get some gear paint to check your pattern. You also need to dial indicator to check your backlash as 01ssreda4 said above. By feel it may seem like they are "right up against" each other but keep in mind that the distance you are measuring is thousandths of an inch, which in my opinion is impossible to measure by "feel". I had a friend put a rear together by feel and it lasted about 10 miles before it completely seized up. It is best to measure this stuff and know for sure. You can turn a $300 ring and pinion set into a paperweight really quick if you don't know what you are doing, ask me how I know this!
How do you know this? J/K
Hlaalu- If you are talking about the preload on the bearings for the pinion, that is where the 25 inch lbs comes from.
If you are talking about how much torque should be applied to do the final torque tightening on the pinion nut, that depends on crush or solid spacer. Crush sleeve I've heard is around 450lb ft lbs and solid spacer instructions say 125 ft lbs. Don't forget red loctite.
If you are talking about how much torque should be applied to do the final torque tightening on the pinion nut, that depends on crush or solid spacer. Crush sleeve I've heard is around 450lb ft lbs and solid spacer instructions say 125 ft lbs. Don't forget red loctite.
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Thanks, you've been very helpful! 
That makes sense, I'm going to try and get some paint.
Really toothpaste? Seems like that would be really thick and hard to get off. What about regular paint from around the house?
When I have the paint or toothpaste
on the gears do I just do a few turns in both directions? Then wipe it off when I snap some photos?
I would definitely get some gear paint to check your pattern. You also need to dial indicator to check your backlash as 01ssreda4 said above. By feel it may seem like they are "right up against" each other but keep in mind that the distance you are measuring is thousandths of an inch, which in my opinion is impossible to measure by "feel". I had a friend put a rear together by feel and it lasted about 10 miles before it completely seized up. It is best to measure this stuff and know for sure. You can turn a $300 ring and pinion set into a paperweight really quick if you don't know what you are doing, ask me how I know this!
When I have the paint or toothpaste
on the gears do I just do a few turns in both directions? Then wipe it off when I snap some photos? Last edited by hlaalu; Jan 27, 2010 at 04:15 PM.
spread it on 5 teeth front and back. Then when you rotate it you have to apy pressure to the ring gear. Stick a pry bar between the case and the side of the ring gear rotate it_ then move the pry bar to the other side of the ring gear and turn it the other direction.
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 24,241
Likes: 89
From: Turnin' Wrenches Infractions: 005
^^^thats right, you want to apply drag to the ring gear to get an accurate pattern. Gear paint is actually more like grease, not paint. In order to clear a pattern (which will be loaded on the pinion as well) get a can of brake parts cleaner and spray the teeth off. That will allow you to rewipe and look again. Nothing wrong with doing it several times to ensure you are seeing it correctly.
Could find any gear paint so I tried the toothpaste and it just came off really easily and I couldn't tell where the pattern was. Should I let the toothpaste dry. Would white-out work?
Removing the carrier / checking backlash and pattern all seems unnecessary just for changing the pinion seal. If you mark the nut and put it back (or a fraction tighter) you will be good to go.
Here's some write-ups I referenced when I was learning.
http://www.vernco.com/rearaxle5/index.htm
http://www.jawsgear.com/tech_kits.php
http://www.greenfries.info/rear_gear.htm
http://www.keliente.com/gears1.htm
http://www.vernco.com/rearaxle5/index.htm
http://www.jawsgear.com/tech_kits.php
http://www.greenfries.info/rear_gear.htm
http://www.keliente.com/gears1.htm
read all the above and you should be ok. on my first try I only followed>>> http://www.keliente.com/gears1.htm << and no problems/no noise after 10 k miles
Johnny
Here are the pictures, I appreciate any advice. To me, looks like the wear in the first two pictures is good...maybe a little on the outside, and the in the last two pictures it looks like it's off on the inside of the tooth.
