4.10's, Too Short
02-25-2010, 08:40 PM
#41
4.10's help you get off the line quicker upon launch, as long as you can hook up. They do not help once the car is moving and you are on the top end.
It doesn't matter how fast the engine accelerates through each gear, the car is not going any faster because its traveling less distance for that given range in RPM. So it evens out.
02-26-2010, 02:34 AM
#42
So basically Wesman made this thread just to argue with everyone and try to prove us all wrong. No surprise judging by his off the wall posts in the SR&K section where's he's borderline banned every thread he comments in, sad really. I'm done here, wesman can't be helped, hopefully he'll sell his TA and mod his cobalt.
02-26-2010, 07:46 AM
#43
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Thank you.
4.10's help you get off the line quicker upon launch, as long as you can hook up. They do not help once the car is moving and you are on the top end.
It doesn't matter how fast the engine accelerates through each gear, the car is not going any faster because its traveling less distance for that given range in RPM. So it evens out.
4.10's help you get off the line quicker upon launch, as long as you can hook up. They do not help once the car is moving and you are on the top end.
It doesn't matter how fast the engine accelerates through each gear, the car is not going any faster because its traveling less distance for that given range in RPM. So it evens out.
Not only do they help with launch, 4.10's also help you make use of the 1:1 gear in the backend of the quarter. This can only be accomplished if you get through second and third faster. 4.10's may lose a bit in third over 3.42's, but you make up for it in 4th.
With an F-Body tire size and gear ratio selected properly, you want to be at peak HP in 4th gear when you cross the finish. It really DOES matter how fast you get through each gear, because you have a limited distance to work with in drag racing to stay in your powerband the longest, preferrably 4th gear. This is going to translate to getting the most forward acceleration through each gear.
Going to 4:30's or 4:56's allow you to run a taller tire to correct for the more drastic change in gearing which increases sidewall and length of tire contact patch for even more traction.
The current NA F-Body record holding drag car has 5.14 gears in it and is in the 8's at over 150 mph.
Put 3.42's in it as it sits now and it would be a turd.
02-26-2010, 07:53 AM
#44
The funny part is, he is still wrong. I've proven it before and will prove again.
This is more for other who may read this post in the future.
4.10's is NOT too short of a gear. There are plenty of benefits. I have showcased that point clearly.
IT IS ABOUT USER PREFERENCE and that be aware of issues that may arise if you do not increase the ratio once you start putting things in the car like a cam. Your selling yourself short and ultimately will be eating clutches.
TO give the other side of it. If I had a car and I did 99% freeway commute (which is sorta what I do now). I would throw in the lowest possible gear. I do not know off hand if there is anything for the 10 bolt that is lower then 2.73's but I would do it since I did not plan on any racing or any really in town driving. On a M6 it would be crazy. I had a kid who bought a 99 C5 Vette w/ a MS3 cam and blew the rear but only could afford a 2.73 diff and it was one of the most horrible driving exp in my life. The car could not break into the mid 13's..... and he killed a new clutch with in a month....
This is more for other who may read this post in the future.
4.10's is NOT too short of a gear. There are plenty of benefits. I have showcased that point clearly.
IT IS ABOUT USER PREFERENCE and that be aware of issues that may arise if you do not increase the ratio once you start putting things in the car like a cam. Your selling yourself short and ultimately will be eating clutches.
TO give the other side of it. If I had a car and I did 99% freeway commute (which is sorta what I do now). I would throw in the lowest possible gear. I do not know off hand if there is anything for the 10 bolt that is lower then 2.73's but I would do it since I did not plan on any racing or any really in town driving. On a M6 it would be crazy. I had a kid who bought a 99 C5 Vette w/ a MS3 cam and blew the rear but only could afford a 2.73 diff and it was one of the most horrible driving exp in my life. The car could not break into the mid 13's..... and he killed a new clutch with in a month....
02-26-2010, 07:58 AM
#46
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So basically Wesman made this thread just to argue with everyone and try to prove us all wrong. No surprise judging by his off the wall posts in the SR&K section where's he's borderline banned every thread he comments in, sad really. I'm done here, wesman can't be helped, hopefully he'll sell his TA and mod his cobalt.
02-26-2010, 09:46 AM
#47
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Thank you.
4.10's help you get off the line quicker upon launch, as long as you can hook up. ----EVERYTHING I SAY AFTER THIS IS COMPLETELY WRONG---They do not help once the car is moving and you are on the top end.
It doesn't matter how fast the engine accelerates through each gear, the car is not going any faster because its traveling less distance for that given range in RPM. So it evens out.
4.10's help you get off the line quicker upon launch, as long as you can hook up. ----EVERYTHING I SAY AFTER THIS IS COMPLETELY WRONG---They do not help once the car is moving and you are on the top end.
It doesn't matter how fast the engine accelerates through each gear, the car is not going any faster because its traveling less distance for that given range in RPM. So it evens out.
/Thread
02-26-2010, 01:55 PM
#51
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What the hell is the purpose of this thread? Was it to bash people who have 4.10s, or are you wanting someone the question below?
I will now try and help out with the above question. Getting a used 10 bolt is what I would do as in the long run it is cheaper than rebuilding your 10 bolt.
I will now try and help out with the above question. Getting a used 10 bolt is what I would do as in the long run it is cheaper than rebuilding your 10 bolt.
02-26-2010, 02:31 PM
#52
You obviously have nothing to add, get the hell out of here.
Amazing how the high school dropout know nothings spring up out of nowhere as soon as there is a debate, all of a sudden all they can do is claim everyone else is wrong but them and just bash. Its just plain sad.
02-26-2010, 02:38 PM
#53
If I only used my car for drag racing and I had a 9", slicks, and a built motor with a huge cam, then 4.10's would definitely be beneficial.
I will now try and help out with the above question. Getting a used 10 bolt is what I would do as in the long run it is cheaper than rebuilding your 10 bolt.
Last edited by Wesmanw02; 02-26-2010 at 02:48 PM.
02-26-2010, 02:47 PM
#54
This is more for other who may read this post in the future.
4.10's is NOT too short of a gear. There are plenty of benefits. I have showcased that point clearly.
4.10's is NOT too short of a gear. There are plenty of benefits. I have showcased that point clearly.
IT IS ABOUT USER PREFERENCE and that be aware of issues that may arise if you do not increase the ratio once you start putting things in the car like a cam. Your selling yourself short and ultimately will be eating clutches.
TO give the other side of it. If I had a car and I did 99% freeway commute (which is sorta what I do now). I would throw in the lowest possible gear. I do not know off hand if there is anything for the 10 bolt that is lower then 2.73's but I would do it since I did not plan on any racing or any really in town driving. On a M6 it would be crazy. I had a kid who bought a 99 C5 Vette w/ a MS3 cam and blew the rear but only could afford a 2.73 diff and it was one of the most horrible driving exp in my life. The car could not break into the mid 13's..... and he killed a new clutch with in a month....
02-26-2010, 02:59 PM
#55
This isn't entirely true either dude.
Not only do they help with launch, 4.10's also help you make use of the 1:1 gear in the backend of the quarter. This can only be accomplished if you get through second and third faster. 4.10's may lose a bit in third over 3.42's, but you make up for it in 4th.
With an F-Body tire size and gear ratio selected properly, you want to be at peak HP in 4th gear when you cross the finish. It really DOES matter how fast you get through each gear, because you have a limited distance to work with in drag racing to stay in your powerband the longest, preferrably 4th gear. This is going to translate to getting the most forward acceleration through each gear.
Going to 4:30's or 4:56's allow you to run a taller tire to correct for the more drastic change in gearing which increases sidewall and length of tire contact patch for even more traction.
The current NA F-Body record holding drag car has 5.14 gears in it and is in the 8's at over 150 mph.
Put 3.42's in it as it sits now and it would be a turd.
Not only do they help with launch, 4.10's also help you make use of the 1:1 gear in the backend of the quarter. This can only be accomplished if you get through second and third faster. 4.10's may lose a bit in third over 3.42's, but you make up for it in 4th.
With an F-Body tire size and gear ratio selected properly, you want to be at peak HP in 4th gear when you cross the finish. It really DOES matter how fast you get through each gear, because you have a limited distance to work with in drag racing to stay in your powerband the longest, preferrably 4th gear. This is going to translate to getting the most forward acceleration through each gear.
Going to 4:30's or 4:56's allow you to run a taller tire to correct for the more drastic change in gearing which increases sidewall and length of tire contact patch for even more traction.
The current NA F-Body record holding drag car has 5.14 gears in it and is in the 8's at over 150 mph.
Put 3.42's in it as it sits now and it would be a turd.
When I ran my car at the track, I was trapping right near the top of 4th, which is the 1:1 ratio. When I ended up modding my car more and I'm trapping higher, I will have to shift into 5th, because 4th tops out at 112MPH with 4.10's. That will definitely kill my 1/4 mile time, since I'll only be in 5th for a short distance, its an O/D gear, and it takes extra time to make that shift.
As for your second paragraph, you're saying you want to be in the powerband as much as possible. I agree. However, I don't see the benefit of 4.10's after you are into the powerband in 1st gear - HP is HP, no matter fast the car goes through each gear. So after each shift with either gear ratio, you're still in the powerband.
4.30's or 4.56's will definitely allow for taller tires (slicks) for the hardcore drag racer. No doubt about that.
I believe the fastest F-body has very short gears, they want to get off the line as fast as possible and into the powerband. I'm sure its also running an automatic too (probably a TH350) with a huge stall, which eliminates time lost due to excessive shifting. The gears get it off the line, the stall allows the engine to sit in the powerband the entire lenght of the track. Since its set up for those gears, I'm sure it would lost a significant amount of time by going to 3.42's. I'm not argueing that, its a drag car.
02-26-2010, 03:12 PM
#56
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When I ran my car at the track, I was trapping right near the top of 4th, which is the 1:1 ratio. When I ended up modding my car more and I'm trapping higher, I will have to shift into 5th, because 4th tops out at 112MPH with 4.10's. That will definitely kill my 1/4 mile time, since I'll only be in 5th for a short distance, its an O/D gear, and it takes extra time to make that shift.
As for your second paragraph, you're saying you want to be in the powerband as much as possible. I agree. However, I don't see the benefit of 4.10's after you are into the powerband in 1st gear - HP is HP, no matter fast the car goes through each gear. So after each shift with either gear ratio, you're still in the powerband.
Second paragraph - Read below
Not only do they help with launch, 4.10's also help you make use of the 1:1 gear in the backend of the quarter. This can only be accomplished if you get through second and third faster. 4.10's may lose a bit in third over 3.42's, but you make up for it in 4th.
With an F-Body tire size and gear ratio selected properly, you want to be at peak HP in 4th gear when you cross the finish. It really DOES matter how fast you get through each gear, because you have a limited distance to work with in drag racing to stay in your powerband the longest, preferrably 4th gear. This is going to translate to getting the most forward acceleration through each gear.
With an F-Body tire size and gear ratio selected properly, you want to be at peak HP in 4th gear when you cross the finish. It really DOES matter how fast you get through each gear, because you have a limited distance to work with in drag racing to stay in your powerband the longest, preferrably 4th gear. This is going to translate to getting the most forward acceleration through each gear.
02-26-2010, 04:01 PM
#57
Numerically higher gears allow you to get into your powerband easier and quicker. So.. if you're getting the powerband quicker, you're moving quicker. Think of it this way, the engine is using the same amount of force in a smaller area, therefore moving through that area more quickly. And then you keep yourself in your peak power so you can do it all over again for the next gear. It's not very complicated. The engine uses less force to do the same thing because of the torque multiplication.
And changing the final drive gear effects all gears, because no matter gear you select on the trans, it goes to the driveshaft and then to the rear where the final drive gears are.
So... this thread makes absolutely no sense. I had 4.10 gears, I didn't like them, so I switched back. Simple. But I know and accept that they made the car quicker.
And changing the final drive gear effects all gears, because no matter gear you select on the trans, it goes to the driveshaft and then to the rear where the final drive gears are.
So... this thread makes absolutely no sense. I had 4.10 gears, I didn't like them, so I switched back. Simple. But I know and accept that they made the car quicker.
02-26-2010, 04:14 PM
#58
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I actually like my 4.10s. I drive the car year round in Chi-Town weather Rain, Snow, whatever. A good tire makes a world of difference in any condition, having the right tool for the job type of thing.
Pros
I can knock down 28mpgs on the highway, I also start in second more often then not so I dont notice how short first is. Keeps me in my powerband at the track, even on the street if you have a good tire and can drive it will be hard to beat.
Cons
Really cant go over 65 if I wanna knock down my mpg. Easier to break in a 10 bolt and just break the 10 bolt. 1st gear is short if you use it.
Nothing beats the **** eatin grin you get when you leave with a sticky tire and 4.10s or "shorter" ratio gears!!!!
Pros
I can knock down 28mpgs on the highway, I also start in second more often then not so I dont notice how short first is. Keeps me in my powerband at the track, even on the street if you have a good tire and can drive it will be hard to beat.
Cons
Really cant go over 65 if I wanna knock down my mpg. Easier to break in a 10 bolt and just break the 10 bolt. 1st gear is short if you use it.
Nothing beats the **** eatin grin you get when you leave with a sticky tire and 4.10s or "shorter" ratio gears!!!!
02-26-2010, 04:42 PM
#59
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I actually just bought a set of 3.42's for $60 since I can just install them myself. Then I just need to find a diff to install, and I should be good to go. I figure a used 10 bolt is around $300, and since my rear is in excellent condition otherwise, so I don't want to end up with some rust bucket axle thats going to need bearings, seals, paint, ect. when I have a perfectly good one in the car now. Thanks for the feedback though.
02-26-2010, 08:28 PM
#60
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When I ran my car at the track, I was trapping right near the top of 4th, which is the 1:1 ratio. When I ended up modding my car more and I'm trapping higher, I will have to shift into 5th, because 4th tops out at 112MPH with 4.10's. That will definitely kill my 1/4 mile time, since I'll only be in 5th for a short distance, its an O/D gear, and it takes extra time to make that shift.
http://s140.photobucket.com/albums/r...sonvsGTO-1.flv