Carbon Fiber Driveshaft Durability
09-29-2010, 07:35 AM
#21
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OK here is the issue with each type of material...
The CF used as per PST is epoxied, and yes if you run the exhaust at the weld yoke sections of the shaft there is a possibility you can have a failure.
If the CF contacts something while it is spinning and underload it is supposed to splinter when it breaks.
If it comes into contact with something fairly hard and violently it will break, however at this point a STL or AL shaft will also become compromised.
CF has no elasticity or torsional flex, its gain over Al is that ability.
AL shafts are as light as CF, sometimes CF maybe slightly lighter.
AL like CF have the ability to run longer lengths and see higher rpm do to the weight they are not spinning, CF can run longer then AL.
AL has a 8% to 11% rate of torsional twist for that shafts length before it breaks.
The other good thing about AL is that it returns to it's original state after being subjest to that rate, meaning everytime you use it you get the same 8% to 11% of torsional twist before it breaks...
STL the cheapest of the 3 and heavier of the 3 can not run the lengths in 1 span as AL and CF can, and does not have the torsional ability of AL, it has 3% to 6% of torsional twist, so if you leave the line and exceed that shafts ability of lets say it has 5% and you twist it 3%, next time around you only have 2% and it will fail.
Saying that is is useless to use a lighter shaft and it is of no help in ANY car regardless of power is totally WRONG....
The driveline is very touchy to weight and pounds can see great increases.
Every car will see greater acceleration and better mpg from lighter driveline pieces, whether it is a 150 hp car or 2500 hp car...
Every 2 lbs is equivalent to 20 lbs carrying weight, and when most factory STL shafts are 24 lbs and better, when you go to a AL or CF shaft you lose atleast 20 lbs, so you just shed 200 lbs of carrying weight
This is why cars will see anywhere from atleast .07 hundreths to as much as a .15 tenth and half increase at the track..
The mpg also increases as the weight decreases.
.
The CF used as per PST is epoxied, and yes if you run the exhaust at the weld yoke sections of the shaft there is a possibility you can have a failure.
If the CF contacts something while it is spinning and underload it is supposed to splinter when it breaks.
If it comes into contact with something fairly hard and violently it will break, however at this point a STL or AL shaft will also become compromised.
CF has no elasticity or torsional flex, its gain over Al is that ability.
AL shafts are as light as CF, sometimes CF maybe slightly lighter.
AL like CF have the ability to run longer lengths and see higher rpm do to the weight they are not spinning, CF can run longer then AL.
AL has a 8% to 11% rate of torsional twist for that shafts length before it breaks.
The other good thing about AL is that it returns to it's original state after being subjest to that rate, meaning everytime you use it you get the same 8% to 11% of torsional twist before it breaks...
STL the cheapest of the 3 and heavier of the 3 can not run the lengths in 1 span as AL and CF can, and does not have the torsional ability of AL, it has 3% to 6% of torsional twist, so if you leave the line and exceed that shafts ability of lets say it has 5% and you twist it 3%, next time around you only have 2% and it will fail.
Saying that is is useless to use a lighter shaft and it is of no help in ANY car regardless of power is totally WRONG....
The driveline is very touchy to weight and pounds can see great increases.
Every car will see greater acceleration and better mpg from lighter driveline pieces, whether it is a 150 hp car or 2500 hp car...
Every 2 lbs is equivalent to 20 lbs carrying weight, and when most factory STL shafts are 24 lbs and better, when you go to a AL or CF shaft you lose atleast 20 lbs, so you just shed 200 lbs of carrying weight
This is why cars will see anywhere from atleast .07 hundreths to as much as a .15 tenth and half increase at the track..
The mpg also increases as the weight decreases.
.
09-29-2010, 07:52 AM
#22
OK here is the issue with each type of material...
The CF used as per PST is epoxied, and yes if you run the exhaust at the weld yoke sections of the shaft there is a possibility you can have a failure.
If the CF contacts something while it is spinning and underload it is supposed to splinter when it breaks.
If it comes into contact with something fairly hard and violently it will break, however at this point a STL or AL shaft will also become compromised.
CF has no elasticity or torsional flex, its gain over Al is that ability.
AL shafts are as light as CF, sometimes CF maybe slightly lighter.
AL like CF have the ability to run longer lengths and see higher rpm do to the weight they are not spinning, CF can run longer then AL.
AL has a 8% to 11% rate of torsional twist for that shafts length before it breaks.
The other good thing about AL is that it returns to it's original state after being subjest to that rate, meaning everytime you use it you get the same 8% to 11% of torsional twist before it breaks...
STL the cheapest of the 3 and heavier of the 3 can not run the lengths in 1 span as AL and CF can, and does not have the torsional ability of AL, it has 3% to 6% of torsional twist, so if you leave the line and exceed that shafts ability of lets say it has 5% and you twist it 3%, next time around you only have 2% and it will fail.
Saying that is is useless to use a lighter shaft and it is of no help in ANY car regardless of power is totally WRONG....
The driveline is very touchy to weight and pounds can see great increases.
Every car will see greater acceleration and better mpg from lighter driveline pieces, whether it is a 150 hp car or 2500 hp car...
Every 2 lbs is equivalent to 20 lbs carrying weight, and when most factory STL shafts are 24 lbs and better, when you go to a AL or CF shaft you lose atleast 20 lbs, so you just shed 200 lbs of carrying weight
This is why cars will see anywhere from atleast .07 hundreths to as much as a .15 tenth and half increase at the track..
The mpg also increases as the weight decreases.
.
The CF used as per PST is epoxied, and yes if you run the exhaust at the weld yoke sections of the shaft there is a possibility you can have a failure.
If the CF contacts something while it is spinning and underload it is supposed to splinter when it breaks.
If it comes into contact with something fairly hard and violently it will break, however at this point a STL or AL shaft will also become compromised.
CF has no elasticity or torsional flex, its gain over Al is that ability.
AL shafts are as light as CF, sometimes CF maybe slightly lighter.
AL like CF have the ability to run longer lengths and see higher rpm do to the weight they are not spinning, CF can run longer then AL.
AL has a 8% to 11% rate of torsional twist for that shafts length before it breaks.
The other good thing about AL is that it returns to it's original state after being subjest to that rate, meaning everytime you use it you get the same 8% to 11% of torsional twist before it breaks...
STL the cheapest of the 3 and heavier of the 3 can not run the lengths in 1 span as AL and CF can, and does not have the torsional ability of AL, it has 3% to 6% of torsional twist, so if you leave the line and exceed that shafts ability of lets say it has 5% and you twist it 3%, next time around you only have 2% and it will fail.
Saying that is is useless to use a lighter shaft and it is of no help in ANY car regardless of power is totally WRONG....
The driveline is very touchy to weight and pounds can see great increases.
Every car will see greater acceleration and better mpg from lighter driveline pieces, whether it is a 150 hp car or 2500 hp car...
Every 2 lbs is equivalent to 20 lbs carrying weight, and when most factory STL shafts are 24 lbs and better, when you go to a AL or CF shaft you lose atleast 20 lbs, so you just shed 200 lbs of carrying weight
This is why cars will see anywhere from atleast .07 hundreths to as much as a .15 tenth and half increase at the track..
The mpg also increases as the weight decreases.
.
Just to clarify, I wasn't saying weight isn't critical from rotating inertia. What I did say is that the reduction in radius has more bearing than weight. Moment of inertia (MOI)= 1/2 x m x r^2.
09-29-2010, 10:35 PM
#23
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You didn't say that, but someone earlier on in this post did say that losing weight in a car with 300 or 400 or something less then a pro 1500+ hp wouldn't benefit from a lighter shaft....
01-15-2012, 08:59 PM
#24
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PST CF driveshaft just failed on my car, 150 miles. The CF shaft seperated from the u-joint assembly closest to the trans but it did not come apart. Calling PST and my supplier. Bummer
08-02-2023, 06:00 AM
#25
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Went to PST in Clearwater yesterday.... I'm looking into getting a PST carbon fiber driveshaft and am curious about what they can hold. From what I've heard the carbon fiber driveshafts are stronger than aluminums, but weaker than steals. I've got 402whp now with a MWC 9", T56 tranny, and M/T drag radials. In the future I plan to be making 500whp or maybe even 600whp on nitrous. Think a carbon fiber shaft would hold up?
Last edited by TheAlmightyJinn; 08-02-2023 at 06:05 AM. Reason: Left out where I got my information... PST in Florida
08-02-2023, 06:21 AM
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08-08-2023, 11:02 AM
#27
I'm looking into getting a PST carbon fiber driveshaft and am curious about what they can hold. From what I've heard the carbon fiber driveshafts are stronger than aluminums, but weaker than steals. I've got 402whp now with a MWC 9", T56 tranny, and M/T drag radials. In the future I plan to be making 500whp or maybe even 600whp on nitrous. Think a carbon fiber shaft would hold up?
08-24-2023, 04:07 AM
#28
One of MANY examples:1999 Chevy Camaro SS Aluminum Driveshaft - Auto Trans #9453 Q3 | eBay
08-24-2023, 07:00 PM
#32
Use a driveshaft loop and the U joints can fail without damaging the DS. It's like your collar bone, it seems to be built to break instead of breaking your neck. Heals easily and fast. Proper U joints work with the OEM SLP aluminum DS the same way. Any sticky tire and surface can be rough on any DS. U joints matched to your HP, designed to break at a certain point, and the car is easy to "heal", just like a person. If the diff, trans or DS is vulnerable, U joints cost less and don't break your neck.
08-24-2023, 07:28 PM
#33
Use a driveshaft loop and the U joints can fail without damaging the DS. It's like your collar bone, it seems to be built to break instead of breaking your neck. Heals easily and fast. Proper U joints work with the OEM SLP aluminum DS the same way. Any sticky tire and surface can be rough on any DS. U joints matched to your HP, designed to break at a certain point, and the car is easy to "heal", just like a person. If the diff, trans or DS is vulnerable, U joints cost less and don't break your neck.
I mean in the grand scheme of things what's another $600-700?? After buying your new parts, possibly a cut and weld on the shaft and then a balance and not to mention the time to do all that, just a little bit more money and you've got a nice newly built DS that will take everything and ask for more
08-25-2023, 05:29 AM
#34
Hey that's great but after a guy invests a bunch of money into their car/set-up in my eyes it makes zero sense to rework a stock DS with proper u joints when I can have one built to handle everything now and into the future.
After buying your new parts, possibly a cut and weld on the shaft and then a balance and not to mention the time to do all that, just a little bit more money and you've got a nice newly built DS that will take everything and ask for more
After buying your new parts, possibly a cut and weld on the shaft and then a balance and not to mention the time to do all that, just a little bit more money and you've got a nice newly built DS that will take everything and ask for more
As for CM, 95% of built cars are not powerful enough to need one that heavy. The weight delta with aluminum is spending $ to go slower.
08-27-2023, 04:41 PM
#35
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only CF fails I've seen were on trucks where they banged it on a rock... instant ball of yarn..Which was a better alternative to a 2 foot chunk of metal swinging around..
I believe HP is not the problem with any drive shaft fail, torque is...
Since my 125hp 2.5L jeep was capable of twisting off a 4" steel drive line
or breaking a 1350 pretty much any time I did something stupid..
Low range transfer-cases teach you caution.
08-28-2023, 07:18 AM
#36
only CF fails I've seen were on trucks where they banged it on a rock... instant ball of yarn..Which was a better alternative to a 2 foot chunk of metal swinging around..
I believe HP is not the problem with any drive shaft fail, torque is...
Since my 125hp 2.5L jeep was capable of twisting off a 4" steel drive line
or breaking a 1350 pretty much any time I did something stupid..
Low range transfer-cases teach you caution.
While CF is expensive (listen to 91Z28's post above) on an F body they work great. Overkill? (listen to 91Z28's post above). They do take some getting used to. The engine does spool up faster and when you take your foot off the gas, the car slows down slower. Just takes some getting used to, otherwise all positives.
08-28-2023, 05:56 PM
#38
While wrapping a CF MIGHT make some sense, the aluminum requires no such. Used from ebay out of WS6 and Camaro SS cars is cost effective. Great U joints are a must, very inexpensive to have it rebalanced before you install it.
08-28-2023, 07:34 PM
#39
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08-28-2023, 07:38 PM
#40
https://www.ebay.com/itm/31472238481...7L%7CEngine%3A
2002 Chevy Camaro SS SLP Driveshaft - Manual Trans #7139 G4 (For: 2001 Chevrolet Camaro Z28 SS Convertible 2-Door)
Opens in a new window or tab
Pre-Owned
$299.99
Buy It Now
+$79.95 shipping
httpss://www.ebay.com/itm/382423137618?fits=Year%3A2001%7CTrim%3AZ28+SS+Conv ertible+2-Door%7CModel%3ACamaro%7CMake%3AChevrolet%7CSubmode l%3AZ28+SS%7CEngine+-+Liter_Display%3A5.7L%7CEngine%
https://www.ebay.com/itm/31469436280...item49453ee6b9
https://www.ebay.com/itm/29536146435...Bk9SR5aPw-vHYg
and many more. You are wrong again.
2002 Chevy Camaro SS SLP Driveshaft - Manual Trans #7139 G4 (For: 2001 Chevrolet Camaro Z28 SS Convertible 2-Door)
Opens in a new window or tab
Pre-Owned
$299.99
Buy It Now
+$79.95 shipping
httpss://www.ebay.com/itm/382423137618?fits=Year%3A2001%7CTrim%3AZ28+SS+Conv ertible+2-Door%7CModel%3ACamaro%7CMake%3AChevrolet%7CSubmode l%3AZ28+SS%7CEngine+-+Liter_Display%3A5.7L%7CEngine%
https://www.ebay.com/itm/31469436280...item49453ee6b9
https://www.ebay.com/itm/29536146435...Bk9SR5aPw-vHYg
and many more. You are wrong again.