LQ4Supra

iTrader: (1)

Well, I'm looking at it from the cost effectiveness point of view. It can be a lot of money spent for worse MPG and little gains.

Depending on what you spend for a gear change, it might be better to do a different upgrade and see more of a gain for your investment. Most people assume that gears are always a great upgrade, but there can be less expensive and more effective upgrades. Changing gear ratios can be disappointing when you pay for the swap and spend 25% more in fuel and not be any faster.

FirstYrLS1Z

iTrader: (4)

to the original poster,get some rides(if you can) in f-bods,one with 3.23 gears,one with3.73 gears,one with a torque convertor mod(at least 3500/3600),and one with a gear and convertor together and you be the judge.

BWZ_2k2Z28

yea i gotcha LQ4. That's the type of info I was interested in btw so thanks. I can get the carrier with a 3.42 gear and a rebuild kit for about $350 or I can just get a thick gear for my 2 series and the rebuild kit for $230. Seems like a cheap way to have a little more fun and considering that the M6's come standard with the 3.42's I dont think I would lose an awful lot of gas mileage.

LQ4Supra

iTrader: (1)

That's what I thought till I did it. I know guys getting 25-26 with 2.73s and now I'm getting 20. I know all things are relative to your purpose and I don't wanna say they are useless because a 3500 stall and 3.42s it probably the shiznit. I have a stock 1800 stall and my 3.42s feel strong but every time I fill up I think about the $700/yr I'm spending in extra fuel that I could be spending on my 6.0 build or a stall. From a stop, a stall has almost the same effect as gears but if you drive easy, you keep all but 1-2mpg. I lost 8-9 with the A4 conversion. If I was substantially faster, I'd be giddy, but since I'm only marginally faster than before its been a love/hate kinda thing.

2001WS6-DJP

3:73 would be what I did. 4:10 is to much for the street. Also all my friends that have but them on(manuals) have gotten slower (3-4 tenths) because they spin more and have to shift more often. 3:73 is gonna make a world of diffrence. Also I didn't think we bought muscle cars for gas mileage.

LQ4Supra

iTrader: (1)

Considering the number of people keeping their heavy OD A4 transmissions and rebuilding/strengthening them, I'd say we do consider MPG when buying an LS1 EFI muscle car. A Jegs TH400 with an XHD stall is $1200. That's nearly a rebuild (no stall) on your average OD transmission if you can't do it yourself. If none of us cared about mileage, we'd go straight to a 3-speed auto instead of doing all the work to upgrade and improve the A4 OD transmission. Being able to reasonably afford to DD a muscle car at $4/gallon gas is still kinda nice.

1320Chicken

iTrader: (4)

LQ4 is hitting the nail on the head. It will feel much faster than it really is. For optimal performance in the 1/4 all aspects of the car must work together. A lot of mods you do that please the butt dyno do not translate as well to the strip.

I had a 3600 stall before my cam swap but with 3.42s and other bolt ons. Personally I loved the stall and wish it would have been one of my first mods. Set up properly the converter is going to hit the target stall speed when you stand on it. So if you can imagine having an almost instant rpm jump right smack in the powerband, yeah it's a blast. I know you don't care about racing but to put it in perspective the gears are worth .1-.2 a converter is worth .5, to me a no brainer but I'm biased.

Also my converter has no drive ability issues. Only difference I noticed is that on a stock motor my car wouldn't idle forward as easily as the stock converter.

Really in the end there's two reasons to do any mod. First you care about performance numbers in some form, or two just for fun. Personally a converter wins out in either case.

BWZ_2k2Z28

dude I get that you're just tryna help and I really appreciate it but I don't know how many times I have to say that I have no use for a stall convertor because I do not race the car and I don't launch anywhere because the police are crazy around here. So unless there is another function of the stall convertor that I am not aware of, there is absolute zero use for it in my application.

justin hover

A stall will throw you right into your power band. You don't have to drag or race to benefit from a stall at all. You'll simply go faster throughout your entire rpm range. Anyone with an auto will benifit from a stall regardless of their goals. I love my 4000...I don't drag/strip it at all (yet). Hands down best mod for an auto no matter what your excuse is.

lemons12

iTrader: (71)

They do "feel" faster, truth is it helps autos little to none.

Most gear swaps (taking into consideration DA changes) are good for less than .1 ET and 1 mph gain.

The only one that is really noticeable is getting away from 2.73s in the 1/4 because of the 90mph/3rd gear drop in RPM. Once you get away from that, the gains are minimal at best.

Go with a gear that keeps you at max power at the end of the track, that is the best gear ratio available for your car.

I know BWZ doesn't understand why I'm about to say what I'm about to say....... But:

And all this coming from Justin Hover! LOL

justin hover

Yup....I should've listend to you 2yrs ago lemons....a stall is truly $ for $ the best mod for an auto. I'm still glad I ditched my 2.73s though. But your advice lead me to the 4000 decision. Kick as ****.

RevGTO

iTrader: (12)

All of these discussions degenerate into assertions about how much quicker a converter will make the car compared to gears. That is certainly true going down the strip at WOT. But the OP is talking about his DAILY DRIVER saying he'll go to the track maybe once a year.

We don't daily drive at WOT all the time. 3.42's will make the car hugely more responsive around town at part-throttle than the sluggish 2.73's. I did my gears before the converter, and the difference was dramatic - in DAILY DRIVING. Sure the stall made a killer difference at the track. But that's not the consideration here. And like I said in my first post, no difference in mpg around town, maybe 2 less on the highway.

1320Chicken

iTrader: (4)

My main point was that yes guys change gears because it feels faster when in reality it's not much of an improvement. I really don't know of any other way to explain it without throwing out track times. At the end of the day that proves beyond any doubt if the car is faster or not.

You don't have to go wot to benefit from the converter. Frankly I don't give a **** if you race or not. My personal experience is the converter is more responsive than gears, both on the track and on the street. Take it for what it's worth. You want gears go gears. I didn't say not to. You're taking it from the point of view that the converter only helps you from a stand still launch. Drive a car with a stall and youll see that's not the case.

So get frustrated all you want, but you have a preconception that a stall has no place in a daily driver application. You want a fun driver, the stall is an option. 2.73s to 3.42s just didn't stand up to the stall for me. And yes if it's not a freaking monsoon outside, or I don't have to haul the whole family I drive mine everywhere.

justin hover

3.42s and for this guy...a 28-3000 stall would make a huge dd/performance gain.

redbird555

iTrader: (14)

I agree that a stall would be more fun than gears. But my real question to the op is that if you dont care about performance, launching or track gains, then why do gears at all? Just keep the 2.73's you wont lose gas mileage and keep the same driveability.

FirstYrLS1Z

iTrader: (4)

^^^ agree !

BWZ_2k2Z28

@1320chicken I get what you're saying. And I'm not getting frustrated nor do I mean ANY disrespect towards anybody here. I'm a noob to this so I'm just trying to learn everything I can. I asked earlier on this thread if the stall has any other benefits than just launching and didn't get any answers.

So how exactly does the stall help with going faster through the rpm range? I've never heard of that before.

1320Chicken

iTrader: (4)

The stall will essentially slip to the rated stall speed allowing rpms to climb faster. So any time you would want or need to get into the throttle(for my application 50% or more) the rpms will snap quickly into that range. Putting you right in the powerband. To me its much more fun than gears for not a lot more money.

For a race setup you want to be just below peak tq. On these cars I think that's excessive for a street car. Mine for example made peak tq arond 5300. 3600-4000 is popular on this board. If you don't want to do a cam down the line Justin hoover's recommendation would get my vote.

No disrespect taken, and I meant none. I'm just excitable from time to time. Best thing to do is drive a car with a stall and form your own opinion. A converter is one of those things where you don't get an understanding of how it acts until you've been behind the wheel of a car with one. At least I didn't anyway

BWZ_2k2Z28

ok that does sound more ideal to me. I drive about 75% in the city. Is there any driveability issues with a stall and city driving?

1320Chicken

iTrader: (4)

I have had none. You need to install an aftermarket trans cooler to help keep the heat down though.