Hawks 8.8??
Joined: Aug 2007
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From: Turnin' Wrenches Infractions: 005
indeed 
Last I heard is their 8.8 was as high or higher then a 12 bolt.....so why run an 8.8. That would also put it higher then a stamped 9 inch or s60 as well. I just dont see any reason to 8.8 unless you're building it from the junkyard but I hate the little wheel bearings at the ends when using 10 bolt axle tubes. They limit axle size, so Id much prefer something with a big housing end.
Last I heard is their 8.8 was as high or higher then a 12 bolt.....so why run an 8.8. That would also put it higher then a stamped 9 inch or s60 as well. I just dont see any reason to 8.8 unless you're building it from the junkyard but I hate the little wheel bearings at the ends when using 10 bolt axle tubes. They limit axle size, so Id much prefer something with a big housing end.
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From: Maricopa, AZ
indeed
Last I heard is their 8.8 was as high or higher then a 12 bolt.....so why run an 8.8. That would also put it higher then a stamped 9 inch or s60 as well. I just dont see any reason to 8.8 unless you're building it from the junkyard but I hate the little wheel bearings at the ends when using 10 bolt axle tubes. They limit axle size, so Id much prefer something with a big housing end.
Last I heard is their 8.8 was as high or higher then a 12 bolt.....so why run an 8.8. That would also put it higher then a stamped 9 inch or s60 as well. I just dont see any reason to 8.8 unless you're building it from the junkyard but I hate the little wheel bearings at the ends when using 10 bolt axle tubes. They limit axle size, so Id much prefer something with a big housing end.
The point of an 8.8 is cost and it's strength is usually strong enough for 90% of us. But, for that much it's a waste.
Think about it this way.... These cars are up to 22 years old now. If the 8.8 that has been out since the 70s was that good of an option there would be a whole lot more of them out there. There's a few good reasons.
FWIW we have sold a whole lot of our fabricated 9" rearends to customers that have already been the 8.8 route. Every time we hear the "I wish I would have just... ".
FWIW we have sold a whole lot of our fabricated 9" rearends to customers that have already been the 8.8 route. Every time we hear the "I wish I would have just... ".
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From: Westchester, NY
I am going back to my 5.0 days. I did bad things to that car and never had an issue. My brother in law a had a stroker head/intake cam/ + blower car that would spin the tires at 100mph. No issues.
And I'm not defending anything, just looking for relevant feedback. For a guy like me who is never going to pull the front wheels off of the ground......
You know?
And I'm not defending anything, just looking for relevant feedback. For a guy like me who is never going to pull the front wheels off of the ground......
You know?
TECH Addict
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,610
Likes: 4
From: Maricopa, AZ
Hawks 8.8?? I am going back to my 5.0 days. I did bad things to that car and never had an issue. My brother in law a had a stroker head/intake cam/ + blower car that would spin the tires at 100mph. No issues.
And I'm not defending anything, just looking for relevant feedback. For a guy like me who is never going to pull the front wheels off of the ground......
You know?
And I'm not defending anything, just looking for relevant feedback. For a guy like me who is never going to pull the front wheels off of the ground......
You know?
I have heard *and keep in mind it may be hearsay* that part of the issue with 12-bolts is that they can flex the housing if you are getting an awesome and aggressive launch, this is especially true with 6-speeds and not as much with autos. There are also a lot of 12-bolt cars out there that seem to be ok though. A properly built 8.8 should be as strong as a 12-bolt, but I agree, for $2600 your money would be better spent elsewhere.
Never had a 12 bolt issue with my 6 speed nitrous 6 liter.
My 8.8 I got used was 1600$ in the long run needing a new carrier and I swapped gears.
A built stock 8.8 will never be as strong as a aftermarket 12 bolt, that's just the difference between aftermarket and stock. A 8.8 will always be as good or a little better than a stock 12 bolt.
My 8.8 I got used was 1600$ in the long run needing a new carrier and I swapped gears.
A built stock 8.8 will never be as strong as a aftermarket 12 bolt, that's just the difference between aftermarket and stock. A 8.8 will always be as good or a little better than a stock 12 bolt.
The 8.8 and the 12 bolt both have 8.8" ring gears.
The 8.8 and the 12 bolt use the exact same pinion and carrier bearings.
The stock 8.8 and 12 bolt use 28, 30, 31 spline axles. Aftermarket 33 and 35 spline spline axles are available but the side bearing journal is weak.
No you cannot swap parts between the two, but as far as strength oem vs oem will be very similar. A Mustang with a well built oem 8.8 will take a lot of abuse, yes, but there is NO TORQUE ARM BOLTED TO IT! Add a torque arm to the side of a housing and watch the bearing tolerances and gear setups change, hence the very common issue with 12 bolt rears picking up noise after hard launches.
Now... Take a oem 8.8 rearend and weld a bunch of steel to the side of the casting(that probably shouldn't be welded to to begin with). I will guarantee if that 8.8 housing was checked for being true and bores still round that it will not be anywhere close. The center line of the pinion compared to the location of the ring gear will be distorted, the pinion bearing bores will be egg shaped, and the heat from the welding process will alter the heat treating that has been done to the casting, sooner or later asking for a failure.
Look at the numbers in a big picture. If the 8.8 conversion was that good there would be a lot more of them out there. There would be more of the faster cars using them... I can tell you right now that NONE of the faster stock suspension torque arm cars are using 8.8 rearends.
At the end of the day cheap is cheap. You get what you pay for.
The 8.8 and the 12 bolt use the exact same pinion and carrier bearings.
The stock 8.8 and 12 bolt use 28, 30, 31 spline axles. Aftermarket 33 and 35 spline spline axles are available but the side bearing journal is weak.
No you cannot swap parts between the two, but as far as strength oem vs oem will be very similar. A Mustang with a well built oem 8.8 will take a lot of abuse, yes, but there is NO TORQUE ARM BOLTED TO IT! Add a torque arm to the side of a housing and watch the bearing tolerances and gear setups change, hence the very common issue with 12 bolt rears picking up noise after hard launches.
Now... Take a oem 8.8 rearend and weld a bunch of steel to the side of the casting(that probably shouldn't be welded to to begin with). I will guarantee if that 8.8 housing was checked for being true and bores still round that it will not be anywhere close. The center line of the pinion compared to the location of the ring gear will be distorted, the pinion bearing bores will be egg shaped, and the heat from the welding process will alter the heat treating that has been done to the casting, sooner or later asking for a failure.
Look at the numbers in a big picture. If the 8.8 conversion was that good there would be a lot more of them out there. There would be more of the faster cars using them... I can tell you right now that NONE of the faster stock suspension torque arm cars are using 8.8 rearends.
At the end of the day cheap is cheap. You get what you pay for.
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The 8.8 and the 12 bolt both have 8.8" ring gears.
The 8.8 and the 12 bolt use the exact same pinion and carrier bearings.
The stock 8.8 and 12 bolt use 28, 30, 31 spline axles. Aftermarket 33 and 35 spline spline axles are available but the side bearing journal is weak.
No you cannot swap parts between the two, but as far as strength oem vs oem will be very similar. A Mustang with a well built oem 8.8 will take a lot of abuse, yes, but there is NO TORQUE ARM BOLTED TO IT! Add a torque arm to the side of a housing and watch the bearing tolerances and gear setups change, hence the very common issue with 12 bolt rears picking up noise after hard launches.
Now... Take a oem 8.8 rearend and weld a bunch of steel to the side of the casting(that probably shouldn't be welded to to begin with). I will guarantee if that 8.8 housing was checked for being true and bores still round that it will not be anywhere close. The center line of the pinion compared to the location of the ring gear will be distorted, the pinion bearing bores will be egg shaped, and the heat from the welding process will alter the heat treating that has been done to the casting, sooner or later asking for a failure.
Look at the numbers in a big picture. If the 8.8 conversion was that good there would be a lot more of them out there. There would be more of the faster cars using them... I can tell you right now that NONE of the faster stock suspension torque arm cars are using 8.8 rearends.
At the end of the day cheap is cheap. You get what you pay for.
The 8.8 and the 12 bolt use the exact same pinion and carrier bearings.
The stock 8.8 and 12 bolt use 28, 30, 31 spline axles. Aftermarket 33 and 35 spline spline axles are available but the side bearing journal is weak.
No you cannot swap parts between the two, but as far as strength oem vs oem will be very similar. A Mustang with a well built oem 8.8 will take a lot of abuse, yes, but there is NO TORQUE ARM BOLTED TO IT! Add a torque arm to the side of a housing and watch the bearing tolerances and gear setups change, hence the very common issue with 12 bolt rears picking up noise after hard launches.
Now... Take a oem 8.8 rearend and weld a bunch of steel to the side of the casting(that probably shouldn't be welded to to begin with). I will guarantee if that 8.8 housing was checked for being true and bores still round that it will not be anywhere close. The center line of the pinion compared to the location of the ring gear will be distorted, the pinion bearing bores will be egg shaped, and the heat from the welding process will alter the heat treating that has been done to the casting, sooner or later asking for a failure.
Look at the numbers in a big picture. If the 8.8 conversion was that good there would be a lot more of them out there. There would be more of the faster cars using them... I can tell you right now that NONE of the faster stock suspension torque arm cars are using 8.8 rearends.
At the end of the day cheap is cheap. You get what you pay for.
Something not mentioned (Yes He knows) the axle bearings in the 10-bolt axle tubes being used in these conversions is tiny and weak, switching to a c-clip eliminator bearing is a bandaid prone to leakage.
Why would You consider using a lesser quality product at the risk of replacing it with a quality piece later? Get the right part the first time, its less money in the long run. There are plenty of choices from sponsors here, all are significantly better than the 8.8.
Carl
I am going back to my 5.0 days. I did bad things to that car and never had an issue. My brother in law a had a stroker head/intake cam/ + blower car that would spin the tires at 100mph. No issues.
And I'm not defending anything, just looking for relevant feedback. For a guy like me who is never going to pull the front wheels off of the ground......
You know?
And I'm not defending anything, just looking for relevant feedback. For a guy like me who is never going to pull the front wheels off of the ground......
You know?
Based on what you're saying, I still don't understand why having someone build you an 8.8 for $600 isn't an option. After everything is said and done, you'll be out less than $1,400 and have a rear that will be more than tough enough for anything you can throw at it. Dude has build damn near 30 of them for members on here who have taken that rear deep into the 9's on hard launches and it's performed flawlessly.
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Joined: Dec 2010
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From: Maricopa, AZ
Hawks 8.8?? Based on what you're saying, I still don't understand why having someone build you an 8.8 for $600 isn't an option. After everything is said and done, you'll be out less than $1,400 and have a rear that will be more than tough enough for anything you can throw at it. Dude has build damn near 30 of them for members on here who have taken that rear deep into the 9's on hard launches and it's performed flawlessly.
THIS 8.8, from Hawks isn't worth it based on cost alone, ignoring their reputation for poor products and customer service.
I think he's saying it IS a very viable option. For $1400, that's a good deal and makes the investment worth it over a more expensive 12/9/60 package. Some do it for less. That's the appeal of the 8.8 option.
THIS 8.8, from Hawks isn't worth it based on cost alone, ignoring their reputation for poor products and customer service.
THIS 8.8, from Hawks isn't worth it based on cost alone, ignoring their reputation for poor products and customer service.
As a budget rear you can't beat the 8.8 but the clowns at hawks have found away to charge 3x what something is worth but that must be their missions statement...
I have gone back and forth and back again with a rear end choice. I'm not building a 1000whp killer and I am on a budget. If money was no issue I would have an MWC 9 by now. I would stay away from the hawks 8.8 when an S60 can be had for the same cost basically.
I have gone back and forth and back again with a rear end choice. I'm not building a 1000whp killer and I am on a budget. If money was no issue I would have an MWC 9 by now. I would stay away from the hawks 8.8 when an S60 can be had for the same cost basically.
Thread Starter
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From: Westchester, NY
I wasn't even looking for a rear, I just came across it randomly and thought hey, a brand new bolt in 8.8, cool. I have no dog in this fight.
As a budget rear you can't beat the 8.8 but the clowns at hawks have found away to charge 3x what something is worth but that must be their missions statement...
I have gone back and forth and back again with a rear end choice. I'm not building a 1000whp killer and I am on a budget. If money was no issue I would have an MWC 9 by now. I would stay away from the hawks 8.8 when an S60 can be had for the same cost basically.
I have gone back and forth and back again with a rear end choice. I'm not building a 1000whp killer and I am on a budget. If money was no issue I would have an MWC 9 by now. I would stay away from the hawks 8.8 when an S60 can be had for the same cost basically.
I'm sure I mentioned this before but your average vehicle is going to see zero difference in performance from the available rear end options on the market today. What you have to look for in rear end choices is durability, fitment, available options, and ease of installation.
I'm sure I mentioned this before but your average vehicle is going to see zero difference in performance from the available rear end options on the market today. What you have to look for in rear end choices is durability, fitment, available options, and ease of installation.
We have multiple customers with the Kooks true duals running our watts link even with out issue. We actually did a rear end install plus added Kooks true duals for a customer.
Another thing not mentioned with the 8.8. It survives behind fox bodies that run 9's yes but the average fox is at least 500 lbs lighter than the average f body. I think it's a viable option though, especially if it's a streetcar with minimal track duty, and one that's not making a ton of torque.