Hp Joe

All you H/C and Big Cube guys, I'd like to hear your opinions.
When you decided it was time to start looking for a transmission, what were some of the Pro's/Con's on:

Built 4L60E (FLP, Yank, Local Shop,etc.)

TH400/TH350 ?????


It seems that the TH400 is a lot cheaper then a lot of the built 4L60E's, but you lose that "driveablity" of a computer controlled transmission. Can a 4L60E be built strong enough to last? Or is a TH400 the best way to go in the longrun?
PSJ, I'm interested in what you have to say, because you've got a monster of an engine with a built FLP transmission. How has it been for you? How long to you honestly expect it to last? How long till it needs to be "freshened up"?

<img src="graemlins/formula.gif" border="0" alt="[Pontiac]" />

WILWAXU

iTrader: (6)

The best reason for going TH-400 is the fact of never having to worry about your trans breaking again. The con's is the lack of lock up converter and overdrive.

If your going with heads and cam or a milder setup, a well built 4L60E should do well, but for anything else... I say step up to a TH-400.

xxxhp

Iam also interested to know about that. Iam getting FLP level IV 4l60E but I didn't decide yet what to do to the engine. Iam really looking into getting a 422 motor, or a TT setup, but also I want to make sure that the tranny would hold up for whatever I choose.

Let's hear what ProStockJohn says about his 422 & FLP 4l60E.

MitchR

Don't forget a built 200R4 - I've heard that they can be built to withstand more torque than a built 4L60E. Also there are shops doing built 4L70E's. I'm not an expert on the subject but these are just some things I've read in pasts posts.

I'd like to know more but would say that a well built 4L60E would be fine and last a while on a H/C car that wasn't really radical.

Mitch

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

It's my understanding that I have the first FLP LS1 4L60E tranny.

Why did I pick them?

-Local to me, 50 minutes away.
-Yank tranny was more.
-Heard so-so things about other noted tranny rebuild places both in Chicago and out of state.

Well, I am a very abusive driver. I like to wack the gas all the time.

It's holding up great.

Chuck from FLP and I will be doing some testing with my car to measure vacuum. We will probably pull the tranny after I log about 100 passes.

One thing I do.

If I go to the track, I NEVER run right after getting there. I usually have to drive 50-90 miles to hit a track. So I get there and let the tranny cool off.

I never race the car if my tranny temps get over 220F. After a pass my tranny temps will go from 185F to like 215F. As I come down the return road the temps start to fall, but I will give the car at least a 30 minute cooldown. Heat kills transmissions. Hotlapping is generally a bad idea. I have used autotap for my tranny temps but I plan to install a gauge soon.

Ragtop 99

iTrader: (7)

Mitch:

4L70E is Yank's name for 200R converted to work with an LS1. Maybe you're thinking of the 4L80e which is a heavier duty truck trans.

A 4L60 can be built to handle a heads & cam package, especially if you have tuning to ensure the tranny is operated as it should be. For big cubes, turbos etc, be prepared for periodic rebuilds and/or freshening.

[ December 26, 2001: Message edited by: Ragtop 99 ]</p>

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

Well, I am a big fan of Yank's converters. It's efficient as hell on the big end and still flashes to like 4400 out of the hole for me and that's awesome.

But Ragtop, I have yet to get convinced that the 200R4 is the e-ticket. Who runs one that has not had problems? Endres' one got rebuilt at one point. Who else runs one?

I am no way taking potshots at Yank I am in fact taking a potshot at the idea that the 200R4 is MUCH better than a 4L60E. Why do people say that the 4L60E sucks? I can give examples of 700R4's that have been living behind 9.7-10.5 cars for like three years.

John

[ December 26, 2001: Message edited by: Pro Stock John ]</p>

Ragtop 99

iTrader: (7)

PSJ:

My typing has gone to ****. I see where you are coming from. The second paragraph should have said 4L60E. I'll edit that.

As far as the 4L60E being bad, I haven't seen many of them last under abuse. Seems like all the builders have had some problems. The FLP seems to be a good one, but I understand that amoung those seeing severe duty, some have seen failures or have been freshened up too. Maybe it is the "E" that is creating the problem and that the mechanicals can be made to handle the challenge. I don't have the answer or Ragtop Racing Tranny's would be a sponser here <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">

MitchR

[quote]Originally posted by Ragtop 99:
<strong>Mitch:

4L70E is Yank's name for 200R converted to work with an LS1. Maybe you're thinking of the 4L80e which is a heavier duty truck trans.

A 4L60 can be built to handle a heads & cam package, especially if you have tuning to ensure the tranny is operated as it should be. For big cubes, turbos etc, be prepared for periodic rebuilds and/or freshening.

[ December 26, 2001: Message edited by: Ragtop 99 ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

You are correct Joel - thanks for refreshing my memory.

I think for the near future I'll end up having the racing tranny shop that's local to me and who did my converter install beef-up my tranny a bit with the usual clutches, bands, etc. just to get a little more strength out of it until I really start putting power down
<img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">

Trevor @ Texas Speed & Perf.

iTrader: (3)

The verdict is out on the 200-4R. John, I know what you mean about the 200-4R's. I've heard a lot more horror stories than I have success stories, but I think the cases I have seen have just been a VERY poor rebuild. Guys like Mike Kurtz at PMAC say that it can be built MUCH stronger than the 4L60E, but he's a Buick guy that's been working with those trannies for a long time. He says that he has guys making 9-second passes on them for a full season before having to freshen them up. I've heard a few stories of some 4L60E HD rebuilds from PMAC not getting everything that they should, but I've also heard of guys like Ethan in Houston that has been running a PMAC-built 4L60E behind his 408 cid LS1 for well over a year with no problems.
I think FLP has the best 4L60E setup going, and I think they'll take more power than people expect. Chuck @ FLP is doing some things with his level IV trannies that haven't been done by other shops. Chuck feels that his level IV 4L60E can stand up to more power than a built 200-4R can. The 200-4R is tiny compared to a 4L60E, so it does make you wonder how they're holding the kind of power that they are. There are some parts to the level IV trans that Chuck has to make because nobody else does. I think if you're looking to add some major power, then you should give Chuck a call. Sure, there's a limit to what the 4L60E will take, no matter who builds it. That's when you can opt for FLP's lockup TH400. They're doing some awesome stuff!

BIGBOS

Wait so FLP makes a lock up Th400??

Trevor @ Texas Speed & Perf.

iTrader: (3)

[quote]Originally posted by BIGBOS:
<strong>Wait so FLP makes a lock up Th400??</strong><hr></blockquote>
You've got it. <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0"> Last time I spoke with Chuck, he told me that he was in the process of finishing it up. I'd recommend giving him a call, and I'll try to get some more info on it to post for everyone. (630)820-9294

Ragtop 99

iTrader: (7)

A lock-up TH 400 would be cool. That will make it a lot easier to switch for some people. Keep us posted on that.

Is Chuck specially making some billet parts for the 4L60e?

Patrick G

iTrader: (14)

If any of you cool cats are "waiting" for a lock-up TH400 to come out, Yank has them in stock...today.

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

Ragtop, some of FLP's tranny parts are hardened. Some are custom. Some are simply blueprinted. Some of what Chuck does it to simply make sure that some things engage/disengage properly.

SSValet

Well, my Yank 4L70 w/ PYE 4000 was just delivered to my house. We are installing Sat. Morning.
My car is a MMS built h&c engine with a nineinch out back and a completely chewed up Star pp in the T56.
I will let everyone know how it does in my situtation.
<img src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

[ December 28, 2001: Message edited by: SSValet ]</p>

Trevor @ Texas Speed & Perf.

iTrader: (3)

Dave - Please be sure to let us know how everything goes.

iateyourcat

What does the lockup converter in a TH400 offer? Based on some of the other posts it only offers a tenth or 1 MPH in the 1/4 mile. Is it mainly for the street? Can you lock it up at low RPMs for better street manners?

Thanks

JS

iTrader: (4)

IMO,I would say Chuck builds the best 4L60E to date.

But I've done alot of research along with my buddy Jimmy who is a very good trans builder,We built a Vacum Modded 4L60E last week w/the better parts.

PSJ made an excellent point by saying this:
MOST of what Chuck does it to simply make sure that some things engage/disengage properly.

Jim stressed this to me over and over again.
He has some parts that r hardened also not to mention most of the parts that r aval. NOW for the 4L60E if u know where to look.

We r testing a trans in my car that JG Trans built.So far my PSI's r normal and the shifts r nice and crisp with NO harness.Just quick an firm.If it works out I will be very happy.

But I still agree with John.FLP is the best.We
just wanted to see if we could put one together and have it work as well?Oh FWIW,I'm running a PI 4400 CUSTOM ONE OFF built by Jack in my car.

JS
Cartek LS6 S2 H/C
JG Trans 4L60E
PI "SECRET" 4400
12-Bolt 3.90's
DYNOED 432RWHP/388RWTQ

[ February 08, 2002: Message edited by: JS ]</p>

Trevor @ Texas Speed & Perf.

iTrader: (3)

JS - Is the new P.I. converter in your car setup to stall 4400 with your setup? Also, what made you switch back? I'm thinking of moving up to a multi-disk #7 pump and having Ed Wright lock it up at a certain RPM in 3rd.