Trying to decide on a rear
Staging Lane
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
From: New Jersey
Originally Posted by sstony
I just put in a strange 60 and its an amazing peice of equiptment. i do have a slight gear whine on the gas at 50mph and up, but its honestly not bad and its dead quiet below 50mph. the fitment was excellent(stock suspension) and it honestly drives(feels) better than my stock 10 bolt. i did purchase a new driveshaft instead of shortening my stock aluminum one--but i got in on the group purchase and got one hell of a deal on everything. also--its a 4 channel so i kept ABS and traction control 
a couple of buddies of mine checked out my new rear end and like it a lot. one of them runs a mosier 9"(4.30's) and the other a mosier 12 bolt(4.11's) and both have complained about noise and fitment with their rear ends and with their aftermarket suspension--but both have held up well for them also...except for an initial concern with the auburn heavy duty posi in the 9" that went to crap after 1500 miles of normal driving and 2 days at the track.
now i haven't had my s60 at the track yet and have only put on about 500 miles, but i haven't run into any complaints and thing is built very well.
just my .02 ...but get the strange(dana)60
a couple of buddies of mine checked out my new rear end and like it a lot. one of them runs a mosier 9"(4.30's) and the other a mosier 12 bolt(4.11's) and both have complained about noise and fitment with their rear ends and with their aftermarket suspension--but both have held up well for them also...except for an initial concern with the auburn heavy duty posi in the 9" that went to crap after 1500 miles of normal driving and 2 days at the track.
now i haven't had my s60 at the track yet and have only put on about 500 miles, but i haven't run into any complaints and thing is built very well.
just my .02 ...but get the strange(dana)60
Teching In
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
Hi,
I have a 2002 camaro with a 3-channel abs and a Moser 9-inch. ABS is working perfectly but I had to modify the rearend to make it work. Here is what I did:
1- I removed my stock 10-bolt reluctor ring and machined the inside diameter on a lathe to make it fit on my detroit locker gear carier. Assembly has to be press fit to prevent reluctor ring from rotating on the gear carrier
2- I machined a male threaded plug with a hole inside to install the stock abs sensor on the top of the rearend. I had to cut the outside plastic tab of the sensor to make it fit in a tight place. I also had to fabricate a female threaded nut and a lock nut.
3- I drilled a hole on the top of the rearend with a hole saw and inserted the fabricated female nut and welded it. This operation is critical because alignment and location have to be perfect. You need measuring tool to make sure that the sensor will be centered on the reluctor ring teeth.
4- After that, you have to install the male plug with the sensor in the welded nut on the rearend and lock everything with the lock nut when distance adjustment between the sensor tip and reluctor ring is done. You can apply thread sealer during assembly to prevent leaking.
5- Distance between the sensor tip and the reluctor ring has to be 0.020-0.030''. The way you can measure it is by ajusting the male plug until the sensor tip touches the reluctor ring and then back off ''X'' turn depending on the thread pitch.
This modification is not as simple as changing a lid or a stat but it can be done easily by a good machinist and welder.
Since this mod, no abs light and ABS operates like my stock rearend.
I didn't want to buy a 12-bolt because I think that they are too weak for a factory heavy car with 6-speed and a lot of torque (Stroker application or nitrous). 2 friends of mine have problems with 12-bolt gear whine and posi explosion. You should be fine with a 12-bolt if you are auto without transbrake. Other than that, go 9-inch. It's heavy and rob more power than a 12-bolt but it's trouble free and indestructible.
SSDION
I have a 2002 camaro with a 3-channel abs and a Moser 9-inch. ABS is working perfectly but I had to modify the rearend to make it work. Here is what I did:
1- I removed my stock 10-bolt reluctor ring and machined the inside diameter on a lathe to make it fit on my detroit locker gear carier. Assembly has to be press fit to prevent reluctor ring from rotating on the gear carrier
2- I machined a male threaded plug with a hole inside to install the stock abs sensor on the top of the rearend. I had to cut the outside plastic tab of the sensor to make it fit in a tight place. I also had to fabricate a female threaded nut and a lock nut.
3- I drilled a hole on the top of the rearend with a hole saw and inserted the fabricated female nut and welded it. This operation is critical because alignment and location have to be perfect. You need measuring tool to make sure that the sensor will be centered on the reluctor ring teeth.
4- After that, you have to install the male plug with the sensor in the welded nut on the rearend and lock everything with the lock nut when distance adjustment between the sensor tip and reluctor ring is done. You can apply thread sealer during assembly to prevent leaking.
5- Distance between the sensor tip and the reluctor ring has to be 0.020-0.030''. The way you can measure it is by ajusting the male plug until the sensor tip touches the reluctor ring and then back off ''X'' turn depending on the thread pitch.
This modification is not as simple as changing a lid or a stat but it can be done easily by a good machinist and welder.
Since this mod, no abs light and ABS operates like my stock rearend.
I didn't want to buy a 12-bolt because I think that they are too weak for a factory heavy car with 6-speed and a lot of torque (Stroker application or nitrous). 2 friends of mine have problems with 12-bolt gear whine and posi explosion. You should be fine with a 12-bolt if you are auto without transbrake. Other than that, go 9-inch. It's heavy and rob more power than a 12-bolt but it's trouble free and indestructible.
SSDION
The weight and drivetrain loss are the only things holding me back from the 9", as well as some potential suspension stuff. The S60 would be a go, but it seems like every week, there's another thread about a noisy one, and the damn things haven't been out that long.
What is the average parasitic loss, percentage-wise, from a 9"? Haven't seen any really specific numbers on it, although I've seen it referred to often.
What is the average parasitic loss, percentage-wise, from a 9"? Haven't seen any really specific numbers on it, although I've seen it referred to often.
The parasitic loss is overrated on the nine inch. If you need it because of it's strength, you need it. You won't notice much of anything different at the track, other than the fact you can launch at higher rpm's without breaking anything in the rear. Bob
Originally Posted by Element
Hm...so there IS a 4 channel (ABS/TCS) 9"?
Looks like it might be a 4 channel 9" or an S60 right now.
Looks like it might be a 4 channel 9" or an S60 right now.
Looks like I'll be getting the 9", then. Are there any major suspension problems with stuff like torque arms and LCAs? I don't really have any way to fab anything up, if required, so bolt-on and drive is an issue for me.
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 393
Likes: 0
I'd like to be making 460rwhp, with an M6, in a car that won't see a lot of track duty
Originally Posted by Element
Looks like I'll be getting the 9", then. Are there any major suspension problems with stuff like torque arms and LCAs? I don't really have any way to fab anything up, if required, so bolt-on and drive is an issue for me.
I know everyone says I will be making this much power or that, but will you really? Do you have the $$$ Try and be realistic about your goals.
Some sponsors push this stuff hard, they care not about you they want to make a sale, if you said "I have 175 rwhp what do I need" the answer you will get from some of these guys is 9" shipped for xxxx
Ask some other F-body axle manufactures the pros and cons. DTS, Strange, Moser, Mark Williams what they think.
Remember a 12-bolt has an 8.875" ring gear pretty close to a 9"
and you can keep your abs.Not trying to start a flame war, but all you read here lately is **** abs get a Ford 9" and you won't have any trouble
yea sue you won't. 700 hp drag only car yea I can see that, but street cars with bolt-on's
In the end do what you want. You are about to spend a lot of money and alter your car in a way you may not like.
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Originally Posted by Carter Hays
No way you will need a Ford 9" for that.
With the mods listed on your car do you really think you want or need a Ford 9"? At this point in the game a 9' will use more fuel, make less power, get hotter etc..
I know everyone says I will be making this much power or that, but will you really? Do you have the $$$ Try and be realistic about your goals.
Some sponsors push this stuff hard, they care not about you they want to make a sale, if you said "I have 175 rwhp what do I need" the answer you will get from some of these guys is 9" shipped for xxxx
Ask some other F-body axle manufactures the pros and cons. DTS, Strange, Moser, Mark Williams what they think.
Remember a 12-bolt has an 8.875" ring gear pretty close to a 9" and you can keep your abs.
Not trying to start a flame war, but all you read here lately is **** abs get a Ford 9" and you won't have any trouble yea sue you won't.
700 hp drag only car yea I can see that, but street cars with bolt-on's
In the end do what you want. You are about to spend a lot of money and alter your car in a way you may not like.
With the mods listed on your car do you really think you want or need a Ford 9"? At this point in the game a 9' will use more fuel, make less power, get hotter etc..
I know everyone says I will be making this much power or that, but will you really? Do you have the $$$ Try and be realistic about your goals.
Some sponsors push this stuff hard, they care not about you they want to make a sale, if you said "I have 175 rwhp what do I need" the answer you will get from some of these guys is 9" shipped for xxxx
Ask some other F-body axle manufactures the pros and cons. DTS, Strange, Moser, Mark Williams what they think.
Remember a 12-bolt has an 8.875" ring gear pretty close to a 9"
and you can keep your abs.Not trying to start a flame war, but all you read here lately is **** abs get a Ford 9" and you won't have any trouble
yea sue you won't. 700 hp drag only car yea I can see that, but street cars with bolt-on's
In the end do what you want. You are about to spend a lot of money and alter your car in a way you may not like.
I've got a bit to wait before i order anything, so I'll be watching carefully to see how the S60 is doing, as far as problems reported, before I make any final decision. The 9" is more than I need, but I'd prefer to have more than less in a rear. I've also got the financial ability and desire to have at least a 440rwhp car, if not more, N/A, so I need something that'll stand up to that. I'd prefer to go with an S60, but right now, there seems to be one person with a bad one for every person with a good one.
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 393
Likes: 0
People have been beating the **** out of 12-bolts since the 1960's. They came behind some heavy, high power cars.
I have know idea why there are so many complaints with the "new" style housings. Talk to the manufactures not a sponsor with a sales goal to meet. More unsprung weight is bad, and an aluminum third member won't hold up very long for your daily commute. Pinion angle at 2.25 down not the most efficient either. I would save the 9" for a true drag race F-body. But that is how I feel.
In the end it's up to you, and remember out of the thousands of 12-bolts out there you usually only hear about the bad ones
If they were that damn bad why would they even bother to cast new ones since the 9" is the "best"
I have know idea why there are so many complaints with the "new" style housings. Talk to the manufactures not a sponsor with a sales goal to meet. More unsprung weight is bad, and an aluminum third member won't hold up very long for your daily commute. Pinion angle at 2.25 down not the most efficient either. I would save the 9" for a true drag race F-body. But that is how I feel.
In the end it's up to you, and remember out of the thousands of 12-bolts out there you usually only hear about the bad ones
If they were that damn bad why would they even bother to cast new ones since the 9" is the "best" Last edited by Carter Hays; May 26, 2006 at 10:07 PM.
Originally Posted by silver02ws6
Order 9 inch from Driveline Solutions With Tru Trac whatever gear you want. No noise Bomb Proof and be done with it.
See I am not sure how you say this. I had a 9" with an aluminum center section, pinion support and the whole shabang. I launched at 6500 on mt drag radials and snapped the carrier in half. Bullet proof I think not.
Originally Posted by Element
After reading some of the thread in here about 12 bolts, 8.8" and 9" Fords, and the S60, I'm stuck at a particularly hard spot.
My dilemma - I know the 12 bolt is the tried-and-true rear for f-bodies, but the stories about them really make me think twice about deciding on one. It seems like, from any vendor, that the rear has to be torn down by a competent sped shop, and double-checked on all tolerances before being installed, or one runs the risk of a fragged 12 bolt, howling gears, and the like. I realize there's probably quite a few more 12 bolts out there without any problems than faulty ones, but $3000 isn't exactly something I can afford to shell out more than once.
Since I plan on keeping ABS, I'm assuming the 9" and 8.8" are out. The 9" is also a bit heavy for my setup - I'd like to be making 460rwhp, with an M6, in a car that won't see a lot of track duty.
The other option I had been hopeful about was the S60, but again, the stories about noise problems really makes me wonder about those. I know some noise will be evident when using a gearset like 4.10s with a cut that's not designed to be the quietest out there, but I don't want to have to have my radio up all the time to drown the gear whine out. The weight difference seems minimal between the S60 and a 12 bolt, and the S60 does seem to be a lot beefier, but there's just the potential problem (almost a guaranteed problem, it seems) with gear whine on that rear end.
It's been recommended that I go with a 12 bolt for my car, but I'm trying to get opinions from as many people who have run these axcles on the street for more time than it takes to get to the track and back. Which would be the better rear to go with? Also, I'm thinking a 31 or 33 spline axle setup would be the best to go with, but terms like gun-drilled axles, and some of the other specific specs on some of the sponsor sites stymies me.
For a car that mainly sees the street, sees the 1/4 once in a while, and never sees any auto-x action (although I don't want to toss handling ability out just because I don't see organized events), what would be the best rear to go with? I know this is a question that gets asked a lot, but specifically - i.e. what spline number, standard vs drilled axles, what posi/locker, ect - I've read up and can't really come to a decision, simply because there's so much info on rears out there.
My dilemma - I know the 12 bolt is the tried-and-true rear for f-bodies, but the stories about them really make me think twice about deciding on one. It seems like, from any vendor, that the rear has to be torn down by a competent sped shop, and double-checked on all tolerances before being installed, or one runs the risk of a fragged 12 bolt, howling gears, and the like. I realize there's probably quite a few more 12 bolts out there without any problems than faulty ones, but $3000 isn't exactly something I can afford to shell out more than once.
Since I plan on keeping ABS, I'm assuming the 9" and 8.8" are out. The 9" is also a bit heavy for my setup - I'd like to be making 460rwhp, with an M6, in a car that won't see a lot of track duty.
The other option I had been hopeful about was the S60, but again, the stories about noise problems really makes me wonder about those. I know some noise will be evident when using a gearset like 4.10s with a cut that's not designed to be the quietest out there, but I don't want to have to have my radio up all the time to drown the gear whine out. The weight difference seems minimal between the S60 and a 12 bolt, and the S60 does seem to be a lot beefier, but there's just the potential problem (almost a guaranteed problem, it seems) with gear whine on that rear end.
It's been recommended that I go with a 12 bolt for my car, but I'm trying to get opinions from as many people who have run these axcles on the street for more time than it takes to get to the track and back. Which would be the better rear to go with? Also, I'm thinking a 31 or 33 spline axle setup would be the best to go with, but terms like gun-drilled axles, and some of the other specific specs on some of the sponsor sites stymies me.
For a car that mainly sees the street, sees the 1/4 once in a while, and never sees any auto-x action (although I don't want to toss handling ability out just because I don't see organized events), what would be the best rear to go with? I know this is a question that gets asked a lot, but specifically - i.e. what spline number, standard vs drilled axles, what posi/locker, ect - I've read up and can't really come to a decision, simply because there's so much info on rears out there.
I'm in the same boat as you, not sure what to get and don't want that damn noise!
Originally Posted by keliente
I wouldn't bother paying someone to take apart a new rear end before at least driving it first, it may have been find from the factory. I put my Moser in and all I did was add fluid to it, it was very very quiet. Now, if you install one and it's noisy, then yeah have someone look at it...
Maybe that is where the problem starts with new rear ends, not set up right from the factory.
Isn't it true that if your gears are making noise and you go back to try to "fix" it that it's too late since the gears meshed that way? Don't you have to buy new gears and start over?
So I guess what you are saying is to cross your fingers and "Hope" you don't have any issues from a brand new $2,300+ rear end.
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 377
Likes: 0
From: Fairfax County, VA (You know you're here when you see the bad roads)
Has anybody had problems with a 12-bolt that was built by someone OTHER than Moser or Strange? Just curious, but I see thread after thread of busted or noisy 12-bolt, and noisy s60's ALL of which are built by one of the same 2 companies. Maybe both rears are fine, when assembled by competent mechanics. Has anyone had problems with their aftermarket DTS, Mark Williams, Currie, etc rearends? I know for a fact that currie build a bolt in 12-bolt with 3ch abs, etc, but I dont know anyone who owns one, or maybe I just never heard of one because they dont break??? I know all aftermarket 12's are built from the same housing to (KTRE). Maybe we shouldnt be blaming the parts, but the assemblers. I hope I dont sound like I'm flaming anybody, I dont mean to. Im just trying to ask a question I havent seen anybody else ask.
I am thinking about getting a new rear in the future, I have an 01 m6 without tcs. Do I have a 4 channel or 3 channel? I want to keep abs with my car but If I can't get a 9" with abs I guess its 12 bolt city for me......
Originally Posted by SuperSport4life
I am thinking about getting a new rear in the future, I have an 01 m6 without tcs. Do I have a 4 channel or 3 channel? I want to keep abs with my car but If I can't get a 9" with abs I guess its 12 bolt city for me......