Trying to decide on a rear
05-17-2006, 10:08 PM
#1
Trying to decide on a rear After reading some of the thread in here about 12 bolts, 8.8" and 9" Fords, and the S60, I'm stuck at a particularly hard spot.
My dilemma - I know the 12 bolt is the tried-and-true rear for f-bodies, but the stories about them really make me think twice about deciding on one. It seems like, from any vendor, that the rear has to be torn down by a competent sped shop, and double-checked on all tolerances before being installed, or one runs the risk of a fragged 12 bolt, howling gears, and the like. I realize there's probably quite a few more 12 bolts out there without any problems than faulty ones, but $3000 isn't exactly something I can afford to shell out more than once.
Since I plan on keeping ABS, I'm assuming the 9" and 8.8" are out. The 9" is also a bit heavy for my setup - I'd like to be making 460rwhp, with an M6, in a car that won't see a lot of track duty.
The other option I had been hopeful about was the S60, but again, the stories about noise problems really makes me wonder about those. I know some noise will be evident when using a gearset like 4.10s with a cut that's not designed to be the quietest out there, but I don't want to have to have my radio up all the time to drown the gear whine out. The weight difference seems minimal between the S60 and a 12 bolt, and the S60 does seem to be a lot beefier, but there's just the potential problem (almost a guaranteed problem, it seems) with gear whine on that rear end.
It's been recommended that I go with a 12 bolt for my car, but I'm trying to get opinions from as many people who have run these axcles on the street for more time than it takes to get to the track and back. Which would be the better rear to go with? Also, I'm thinking a 31 or 33 spline axle setup would be the best to go with, but terms like gun-drilled axles, and some of the other specific specs on some of the sponsor sites stymies me.
For a car that mainly sees the street, sees the 1/4 once in a while, and never sees any auto-x action (although I don't want to toss handling ability out just because I don't see organized events), what would be the best rear to go with? I know this is a question that gets asked a lot, but specifically - i.e. what spline number, standard vs drilled axles, what posi/locker, ect - I've read up and can't really come to a decision, simply because there's so much info on rears out there.
My dilemma - I know the 12 bolt is the tried-and-true rear for f-bodies, but the stories about them really make me think twice about deciding on one. It seems like, from any vendor, that the rear has to be torn down by a competent sped shop, and double-checked on all tolerances before being installed, or one runs the risk of a fragged 12 bolt, howling gears, and the like. I realize there's probably quite a few more 12 bolts out there without any problems than faulty ones, but $3000 isn't exactly something I can afford to shell out more than once.
Since I plan on keeping ABS, I'm assuming the 9" and 8.8" are out. The 9" is also a bit heavy for my setup - I'd like to be making 460rwhp, with an M6, in a car that won't see a lot of track duty.
The other option I had been hopeful about was the S60, but again, the stories about noise problems really makes me wonder about those. I know some noise will be evident when using a gearset like 4.10s with a cut that's not designed to be the quietest out there, but I don't want to have to have my radio up all the time to drown the gear whine out. The weight difference seems minimal between the S60 and a 12 bolt, and the S60 does seem to be a lot beefier, but there's just the potential problem (almost a guaranteed problem, it seems) with gear whine on that rear end.
It's been recommended that I go with a 12 bolt for my car, but I'm trying to get opinions from as many people who have run these axcles on the street for more time than it takes to get to the track and back. Which would be the better rear to go with? Also, I'm thinking a 31 or 33 spline axle setup would be the best to go with, but terms like gun-drilled axles, and some of the other specific specs on some of the sponsor sites stymies me.
For a car that mainly sees the street, sees the 1/4 once in a while, and never sees any auto-x action (although I don't want to toss handling ability out just because I don't see organized events), what would be the best rear to go with? I know this is a question that gets asked a lot, but specifically - i.e. what spline number, standard vs drilled axles, what posi/locker, ect - I've read up and can't really come to a decision, simply because there's so much info on rears out there.
05-17-2006, 10:27 PM
#3
Originally Posted by 1BAD98LS1
I'd say forget the ABS and get a 9", then you know you'll never have to worry about it. 
05-17-2006, 10:31 PM
#4
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My car sees daily service, the only thing that would bother me is the light on in the dash, oh well just take the bulb out, but other than that you'll never know that rear back there 
05-17-2006, 10:33 PM
#5
I would just order a 12 bolt and be done with it.
It's not like all of them end up taking a ****...you just tend to HEAR about bad ones more than you do good ones. I mean how likely are you to sign on and be like, "ohh my whisper lid is great!" Probably never. But man if that thing screwed up your car you'd be raising hell.
IMO a 12 bolt would be above and beyond what you need, considering people rock them well into the 10's and 9's. 31 spline should be fine. Hey I rhymed. All the time. Are you a mime? Found a dime.
Ok I'm done.
It's not like all of them end up taking a ****...you just tend to HEAR about bad ones more than you do good ones. I mean how likely are you to sign on and be like, "ohh my whisper lid is great!" Probably never. But man if that thing screwed up your car you'd be raising hell.
IMO a 12 bolt would be above and beyond what you need, considering people rock them well into the 10's and 9's. 31 spline should be fine. Hey I rhymed. All the time. Are you a mime? Found a dime.
Ok I'm done.
05-17-2006, 10:36 PM
#6
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Originally Posted by keliente
I would just order a 12 bolt and be done with it.
It's not like all of them end up taking a ****...you just tend to HEAR about bad ones more than you do good ones. I mean how likely are you to sign on and be like, "ohh my whisper lid is great!" Probably never. But man if that thing screwed up your car you'd be raising hell.
IMO a 12 bolt would be above and beyond what you need, considering people rock them well into the 10's and 9's. 31 spline should be fine. Hey I rhymed. All the time. Are you a mime? Found a dime.
Ok I'm done.
It's not like all of them end up taking a ****...you just tend to HEAR about bad ones more than you do good ones. I mean how likely are you to sign on and be like, "ohh my whisper lid is great!" Probably never. But man if that thing screwed up your car you'd be raising hell.
IMO a 12 bolt would be above and beyond what you need, considering people rock them well into the 10's and 9's. 31 spline should be fine. Hey I rhymed. All the time. Are you a mime? Found a dime.
Ok I'm done.
05-17-2006, 10:45 PM
#7
Originally Posted by keliente
I would just order a 12 bolt and be done with it.
It's not like all of them end up taking a ****...you just tend to HEAR about bad ones more than you do good ones. I mean how likely are you to sign on and be like, "ohh my whisper lid is great!" Probably never. But man if that thing screwed up your car you'd be raising hell.
IMO a 12 bolt would be above and beyond what you need, considering people rock them well into the 10's and 9's. 31 spline should be fine. Hey I rhymed. All the time. Are you a mime? Found a dime.
Ok I'm done.
It's not like all of them end up taking a ****...you just tend to HEAR about bad ones more than you do good ones. I mean how likely are you to sign on and be like, "ohh my whisper lid is great!" Probably never. But man if that thing screwed up your car you'd be raising hell.
IMO a 12 bolt would be above and beyond what you need, considering people rock them well into the 10's and 9's. 31 spline should be fine. Hey I rhymed. All the time. Are you a mime? Found a dime.
Ok I'm done.
I guess the biggest question for me right now is to take the chance with an S60, have a good shop tear it down and check everything, put it back together, and hope it doesn't start whining. Depending on how well I can launch the car once I get wider tires on the back, more track passes, and nitrous might be in order for me, and the ring for the S60 just gives me more confidence that a 150 shot on top of a 450+ rwhp engine isn't going to cause carnage.
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05-18-2006, 07:13 AM
#9
There is such thing as a noisy 9 inch too guys....
I mean really something has got to give, so you go to the track and it makes some noise afterwards, big deal. I know I don't care at least - I'm just happy to know I have a super solid rear end underneath my car. It is daily driven and it doesn't bother me.
I wouldn't bother paying someone to take apart a new rear end before at least driving it first, it may have been find from the factory. I put my Moser in and all I did was add fluid to it, it was very very quiet. Now, if you install one and it's noisy, then yeah have someone look at it...
I mean really something has got to give, so you go to the track and it makes some noise afterwards, big deal. I know I don't care at least - I'm just happy to know I have a super solid rear end underneath my car. It is daily driven and it doesn't bother me.
I wouldn't bother paying someone to take apart a new rear end before at least driving it first, it may have been find from the factory. I put my Moser in and all I did was add fluid to it, it was very very quiet. Now, if you install one and it's noisy, then yeah have someone look at it...
05-18-2006, 08:33 AM
#10
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I'm guessing your car is a 3 channel car. if it was a 4 channel car then you could abs with a 9in. As far as the 12 bolt goes yes there are people who break them more then the other 2(9in S60) but there are more 12 bolts out there under F-bodies, so if 10% with 12 bolts and 10% with 9in break. then there will still be more broken 12 bolts. Also where those 12 bolts that broke taken to the track every weekend with slicks and launched as hard as possible. Since you said you plan to put 450rwhp through and spent most of it's time on the street and as much as you hate rearend noise I would 12 bolt. If you think you might decide to start going to the track every weekend spraying with slicks then I would look into the other 2 a little more. I'm personally going with a 9in and I'm going to do a rear seat delete, at which time I'll pull the carpet from the trunk rear seat area up and sound deaden it. to help minimize noise intrusion into the cab since I also plan to run a locker in mine.
Last edited by lt1formula2000; 05-19-2006 at 12:07 PM.
05-19-2006, 11:21 AM
#11
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I had a similar debate and I decided on the 9" Moser with 4.11's including 4 Channel with ABS/TCS. I'm installing it this weekend. Can't wait to get it installed an broken in!
Paid a few bucks more to have Billingsley build it out completely so I can just bolt it straight on (backing plates already installed). Amber and the whole crew up there has been great to deal with.
Paid a few bucks more to have Billingsley build it out completely so I can just bolt it straight on (backing plates already installed). Amber and the whole crew up there has been great to deal with.
05-19-2006, 01:38 PM
#12
I am considering a 9" Ford also on my 98. I am not sure what I need to order to make it work. I would love some advice. How do I know if my ABS is 3 or 4 channel? I have a traction control button between the stock stereo and the A/C vents.
Again, I want to be able to take it out of the crate/box, add lube, slide on my rotors and calipers and drive.
Again, I want to be able to take it out of the crate/box, add lube, slide on my rotors and calipers and drive.
05-19-2006, 02:18 PM
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What I've been told is that if you have ABS and TCS then it is a 4 channel setup. Someone correct me if I'm wrong about that as I'm not sure if the 98's might be different.
As far as just bolting up...I'm basically doing just that - I'm going to drop the old rear and slap the new one in. Assuming you don't have a shop do the entire install for you, I think Billingsley is one of the very few places that will do the brake backing plates for you and ship the 9" ready to go. This avoids having to get plates pressed on yourself.
The only thing I will have to deal with is removing the existing ujoint from the driveshaft. It has a nylon ring that has to be melted out using a torch and from what I've read on the boards you can't use a small hand-held torch. Luckily my buddy who's helping has one handy.
As far as just bolting up...I'm basically doing just that - I'm going to drop the old rear and slap the new one in. Assuming you don't have a shop do the entire install for you, I think Billingsley is one of the very few places that will do the brake backing plates for you and ship the 9" ready to go. This avoids having to get plates pressed on yourself.
The only thing I will have to deal with is removing the existing ujoint from the driveshaft. It has a nylon ring that has to be melted out using a torch and from what I've read on the boards you can't use a small hand-held torch. Luckily my buddy who's helping has one handy.
05-19-2006, 02:22 PM
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As far as parts...I just need the new UJoint, UJoint straps, breather tubing from axle, gear oil (dino) and GM limited slip additive. I also got the 1/2" studs so I had to get new lugnuts to fit them.
I'm also throwing a new Panhard rod and LCA's while I'm under there but obviously not required.
I'm also throwing a new Panhard rod and LCA's while I'm under there but obviously not required.
05-19-2006, 02:41 PM
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I just put in a strange 60 and its an amazing peice of equiptment. i do have a slight gear whine on the gas at 50mph and up, but its honestly not bad and its dead quiet below 50mph. the fitment was excellent(stock suspension) and it honestly drives(feels) better than my stock 10 bolt. i did purchase a new driveshaft instead of shortening my stock aluminum one--but i got in on the group purchase and got one hell of a deal on everything. also--its a 4 channel so i kept ABS and traction control
a couple of buddies of mine checked out my new rear end and like it a lot. one of them runs a mosier 9"(4.30's) and the other a mosier 12 bolt(4.11's) and both have complained about noise and fitment with their rear ends and with their aftermarket suspension--but both have held up well for them also...except for an initial concern with the auburn heavy duty posi in the 9" that went to crap after 1500 miles of normal driving and 2 days at the track.
now i haven't had my s60 at the track yet and have only put on about 500 miles, but i haven't run into any complaints and thing is built very well.
just my .02 ...but get the strange(dana)60
a couple of buddies of mine checked out my new rear end and like it a lot. one of them runs a mosier 9"(4.30's) and the other a mosier 12 bolt(4.11's) and both have complained about noise and fitment with their rear ends and with their aftermarket suspension--but both have held up well for them also...except for an initial concern with the auburn heavy duty posi in the 9" that went to crap after 1500 miles of normal driving and 2 days at the track.
now i haven't had my s60 at the track yet and have only put on about 500 miles, but i haven't run into any complaints and thing is built very well.
just my .02 ...but get the strange(dana)60
05-20-2006, 04:40 AM
#19
Yes the 9 inch has the 4 channel, ABS and TCS option. If you have traction control on your car, then it is the 4 channel. Those who have just ABS have the 3 channel, and the 9 inch is not offered with just ABS. I have sold many Moser 9 inch rears to customers with the 3 channel, with them knowing they just have to disconnect their ABS assemblies. Bob
more weight i get to take out 