Do I need a Master Install kit for a gear install?
Do I need a Master Install kit for a gear install? I'm still stuck on 4.10s and probably won't be talked out of them. I know I will need a new rear again sooner or later so what the hell. Anyways, the 10 bolt in my car is a NEW GM 10 bolt with around 15,000 miles or so on it. Will I need the master install kit with all the new parts, or would I be fine just having the shop install the gears with what's there? I wouldn't mind saving all that cash. Thanks for the replies.
You're going to have to replace the crush sleeve & pinion seal regardless, so I would go ahead & throw some new front & rear pinion bearings in as well since they seem to fail more often then the carrier bearings.. The carrier bearings would probably be alright though as long as the races aren't pitted & feel smooth.
-Mike
-Mike
I'd respecfully disagree with necessity of a master kit. Since the rear is realitivly so new, without even looking at it, the bearings will be fine...sometimes replacing the parts with aftermarket inexpensive bearings is a bad choice...I'd say without looking at it, you'll need just a shim kit, new crush collar and pinion nut and a few seals. Most basic kits will cover this and only set you back ~35.00. I wouldn't invest too much money in that stock rear....
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,124
Likes: 1
From: Las Vegas
Originally Posted by SJM Manufacturing Inc
I'd respecfully disagree with necessity of a master kit. Since the rear is realitivly so new, without even looking at it, the bearings will be fine...sometimes replacing the parts with aftermarket inexpensive bearings is a bad choice...I'd say without looking at it, you'll need just a shim kit, new crush collar and pinion nut and a few seals. Most basic kits will cover this and only set you back ~35.00. I wouldn't invest too much money in that stock rear....
Even being new, does not afford you that things will be fine. I have done several differentials that had less than 5000 miles from the factory and the bearings already showed signs of micro spalling and radial styrations. Not to mention, that if the individual doing the work isnt versed on proper, used pinion bearing preload, there is an excellent chance that they will be replacing them soon after.
Not only that, but even if he only needs a few small parts and the bearings are ok.... it is a stock differential.... and he will be needing the bearings sooner than later anyway.
FWIW, all the masterkits that I have ever used were stuffed with Timken bearings. The same exact bearings that the OE uses.... so there isnt a worry about using an aftermarket kit..... as long as it has Timken bearings in it to begin with.
Beside, if you dont use them you can sell them on the board to recoup some moola.
I can understand that you may feel it is speculative. There is a high-probability that they are all fine verses needing replaced. It is speculative for you as well to consider that the bearings will need replaced...the probability that they ALL need replaced is VERY slim...neither of us really know. A master install kit on a stock setup that has less then 15k miles is more then likely not necessary.
If you need a bearing/race, you can purchase ONE bearing and race and spend a lot less. The bearing and race is a standard component you can purchase at just about any auto vendor. If you can't find a vendor, there are bearing manufactures i.e. Barry bearing that will have the parts.
Investing in a stock rear-end really is not worth it. 35.00 to the difference of a master kit costing upwards of 95+ is a huge difference. FWIW, Timken bearing is a reputable bearing w/repeatable tolerances, I have seen off-brand bearings used in some kits.
The reality is the stock bearings will probably outlast his gears. If the installer installed new bearings or not, if he wasn't "versed" on proper setup, no bearing will last very long.
There really is no right or wrong answer here, it is all speculative. The simple install kit would be the best investment. If a bearing was to be bad, pick up a new one for minimal costs. No sense in having a bucket of additional parts that you paid quite a bit of money for and not have any use for them. Remember, we are talking about a stock weak rear-end that the limiting factor is a weak carrier and small gearsets.
If you need a bearing/race, you can purchase ONE bearing and race and spend a lot less. The bearing and race is a standard component you can purchase at just about any auto vendor. If you can't find a vendor, there are bearing manufactures i.e. Barry bearing that will have the parts.
Investing in a stock rear-end really is not worth it. 35.00 to the difference of a master kit costing upwards of 95+ is a huge difference. FWIW, Timken bearing is a reputable bearing w/repeatable tolerances, I have seen off-brand bearings used in some kits.
The reality is the stock bearings will probably outlast his gears. If the installer installed new bearings or not, if he wasn't "versed" on proper setup, no bearing will last very long.
There really is no right or wrong answer here, it is all speculative. The simple install kit would be the best investment. If a bearing was to be bad, pick up a new one for minimal costs. No sense in having a bucket of additional parts that you paid quite a bit of money for and not have any use for them. Remember, we are talking about a stock weak rear-end that the limiting factor is a weak carrier and small gearsets.
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Verdad Gallardo TECH Fanatic
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,124
Likes: 1
From: Las Vegas
I hear you Steve. A bearing to bearing replacement is definately cost effective in this situation. It's not really speculative, I just think it is better to cover your booty, just in case..... and being prepared. Expect the worst and hope for the best..... when it comes to differentials.
I like to keep down time to a minimum. Especially, if it is a daily driver.
I like to keep down time to a minimum. Especially, if it is a daily driver.
Originally Posted by chicane
I hear you Steve. A bearing to bearing replacement is definately cost effective in this situation. It's not really speculative, I just think it is better to cover your booty, just in case.....
I like to keep down time to a minimum. Especially, if it is a daily driver.
I like to keep down time to a minimum. Especially, if it is a daily driver.
I seem to be playing devils advocate tonight for some strange reason...sometimes its better to stay out of some topics...I see some pretty strange things ...some shops won't even replace the pinion nuts or crush collar! Gear changes...some just re-use the same pinion spacer without checking pinion depth or try to re-use the stock cast shims in conjuction with others. Tapping in a cast shim is waiting for troubles......those master kits come with so many new parts that won't be used...I'd say I suppose if a shop is doing it, at typically 40-60 dollars per hour, it may be better suited for that customer to have the parts ready to install not even verifying weather the parts need it or not, but just replace them. Only thing that I see is many shops don't like customers to bring their own parts in due to warranty work and other issues...they typically like to use their own supplies which they can get very quickly(if they needed an additional part). I'm not a mechanic at a shop, I'm an Engineer, so I tend to think a bit different then the normal person...lol We tend to pick things apart in our head...
...good chatting with you, have a great nite. Time to get some sleep. 5am comes around pretty fast!
