Notice once the shift happens the rpms don't go up for 5 seconds.

Current Gear(.) Engine Speed(RPM) Ignition Timing Advance(°) Throttle Position Angle(%)
1 791.8 28 0
1 808.8 26.5 0
1 796.3 28.5 0
1 787 28.5 0
1 783.3 28.5 0
1 797.8 27 0
1 805.3 27 0
1 827.5 25.5 0
1 801.3 27 0
1 775.8 31 0
1 773 29 0
1 790 26 14.1
1 889.8 24.5 21.2
1 1405 25.5 28.2
1 1702.5 27 38
1 1972.8 27 45.9
1 2202.3 27.5 52.2
1 2378 27.5 63.1
1 2559 27 93.7
1 2908 24.5 100
1 3233.3 24.5 100
1 3608.8 24.5 100
1 3982.3 25 100
1 4412.8 25.5 100
1 4957 26.5 100
1 5390.8 27 100
2 5783.5 27 100
2 5911.3 27 100
2 4632.3 24 100
2 3288.5 24 100
2 3476 24.5 100
2 3555.5 23.5 100
2 3589.5 24 100
2 3650.8 24 100
2 3700.3 24 100
2 4008.8 25.5 100
2 3991.8 25.5 100
2 4100.8 25.5 100
2 4283 25.5 100
2 4462.8 26 100
2 4516.5 26 100
2 4642.3 26.5 100
2 4800 27 100
2 4917.8 27.5 100
2 5064 28 93.7
2 5190 29.5 35.3
4 4975 41 0
4 4610.8 41 0
4 4182 41.5 0.4
4 3869.3 41.5 0.4
4 3616.5 41.5 0
4 3334.8 41.5 0.4
4 3109.8 41.5 0.4
4 2711.5 40.5 0
4 2217.3 39.5 0.4
4 2140.8 39.5 0.4
4 2140 39.5 0.4
4 2126.8 39.5 0.4
4 2095 39.5 0.4
4 2096.5 39 0.4
4 2099 39.5 0.4
4 2094.5 39 0.4
4 2093.8 39.5 0
4 2086.3 39.5 0.4
4 2081.3 39 0.4
4 2063 39 0.4
4 2069 39 0.4
4 2058 39 0.4
4 2050 39 0.4

 

A4 trans? Looks like normal rpm dropoff with a stock converter.

 

I don't see any TQM in what you posted.

I just ATAPed a friends '02 TA Saturday at the track and he showed -10 timing just before the shift into second. Now that's TQM!

 

OK so what would cause the rpms to not go up for 5 seconds after the shift.

 

How did you get 5 seconds? ATAP logs more than once a second, there is a timing counter you can see when you dump the data into Excel. 1-2 Upshift shows only a couple frames, not counting the upshift lag; part of which is programmed into the computer.

 

I can count it when I'm driving. It's shown as about 10 frames here.

 

Can't really figure that out above.. but, look at the data. It's normal for a stock PCM to pull timing on a shift. But.. if this last more than a few "frames" of autotap, you have TM.

Example:

My car would do something like this on a shift:

24
24
24.5
-10
-10
-8
0
10
17
20
24.5
25
25
25.5

BTW: It's not incommon for timing to go to -10 on a shift for one maybe 2 frames on a stock PCM.. anything more isn't good.

If there is any question, get it tuned. I ran in circles for 6 months with this thing, and tried about everything... tuning was the only cure.

<small>[ July 15, 2002, 07:28 PM: Message edited by: WILWAXU ]</small>

 

Funny you say that is I have tuning.

 

Like I said, the rpm dropoff looks normal for an A4 car with stock converter. Here's the rpm change on the 1-2 shift I get with an ST3500 / 2.73 combo. Notice the rpm drop is not as low as yours, but substantially better than with the stock TC.
Current Gear Engine Speed
1 606
1 617
1 1094
1 2934
1 3448
1 4134
1 4865
1 5208
1 5405
1 5527
1 5537
1 5450
1 5366
1 5630
1 5870
2 6170
2 5988
2 5527
2 4878
2 4840
2 4892
2 4952
2 5028
2 5086
2 5147
2 5201
2 5263
2 5308
2 5353
2 5419
2 5502
2 5586
2 5652
2 5714
2 5794
2 5848
3 5928

 

Right your rpms drop but they don't stay steady. Once they drop they imediatly go back up. I have 10 frames where the rpm's are staying at about 4000 rpm's. I'm going to try to get a video of this tonight.

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Nick's WS6:
<strong>Funny you say that is I have tuning.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well.. then you need to talk to whoever did the tuning. If the tuner wasn't asked to remove TM.. then it probably was left alone. Ed Wright got rid of mine completely!

 

A-tap is monitoring the ECM. The Current Gear is only what the ECM thinks it is by the signal it has sent to the tranny .The delay you are seeing is the delay between the ECM sending the electronic signal to shift, and the mechanical shifting of the tranny. It takes some time for the mechanical internals to complete the shift and for the RPM's to drop.

Torque management is a function of the PCM that reduces engine power
under certain conditions. Torque Management is performed for the
following reasons:
To prevent overstressing the powertrain components.
To prevent damage to the vehicle during certain abusive maneuvers.
To reduce engine speed when the IAC is out of the normal operating
range.

The PCM monitors the following sensors and engine parameters to
calculate engine output torque:
Air/Fuel ratio
Mass Air Flow
Manifold Asolute Pressure
Intake Air Temperature
Spark Advance
Engine Speed
Engine Coolant Temperature
A/C Clutch Status

The PCM monitors the torque converter status, the transmission gear
ratio, and the engine speed in order to determine if torque reduction
is required. The PCM retards the spark as appropriate to reduce
engine torque if torque reduction is required. The PCM also shuts
off the fuel to certain injectors to reduce the engine power in the
case of an abusive manuever.

The following are instances when engine power reduction is likely to
be experienced:
During transmission upshifts and downshifts.
Heavy acceleration from a standing start.
The IAC is out of the normal operating range.
When the driver is performing harsh or abusive manuevers such as
shifting into gear at high throttle angles or shifting the
transmission from reverse to drive to create a rocking motion.

The driver is unlikely to notice the torque management actions in the
first two instances. The engine power output will be moderate at
full throttle in the other two cases.

The PCM calculates the amount of spark retard necessary to reduce
engine power by the desired amount. The PCM disables the fuel
injectors for cylinders 1, 4, 6, and 7 in the case of an abusive
manuever.

 

A-tap is monitoring the ECM. The Current Gear is only what the ECM thinks it is by the signal it has sent to the tranny .The delay you are seeing is the delay between the ECM sending the electronic signal to shift, and the mechanical shifting of the tranny. Remember, at WOT, your RPM's are building extremely fast. It takes some time for the mechanical internals to complete the shift and for the RPM's to drop.

Torque management is a function of the PCM that reduces engine power
under certain conditions. Torque Management is performed for the
following reasons:
To prevent overstressing the powertrain components.
To prevent damage to the vehicle during certain abusive maneuvers.
To reduce engine speed when the IAC is out of the normal operating
range.

The PCM monitors the following sensors and engine parameters to
calculate engine output torque:
Air/Fuel ratio
Mass Air Flow
Manifold Asolute Pressure
Intake Air Temperature
Spark Advance
Engine Speed
Engine Coolant Temperature
A/C Clutch Status

The PCM monitors the torque converter status, the transmission gear
ratio, and the engine speed in order to determine if torque reduction
is required. The PCM retards the spark as appropriate to reduce
engine torque if torque reduction is required. The PCM also shuts
off the fuel to certain injectors to reduce the engine power in the
case of an abusive manuever.

The following are instances when engine power reduction is likely to
be experienced:
During transmission upshifts and downshifts.
Heavy acceleration from a standing start.
The IAC is out of the normal operating range.
When the driver is performing harsh or abusive manuevers such as
shifting into gear at high throttle angles or shifting the
transmission from reverse to drive to create a rocking motion.

The driver is unlikely to notice the torque management actions in the
first two instances. The engine power output will be moderate at
full throttle in the other two cases.

The PCM calculates the amount of spark retard necessary to reduce
engine power by the desired amount. The PCM disables the fuel
injectors for cylinders 1, 4, 6, and 7 in the case of an abusive
manuever.

<small>[ July 19, 2002, 06:32 PM: Message edited by: 2xLS1 ]</small>

 

I have ataped the car to see if fuel is being shut off and when the 4000 rpm thing happens the injector pulse is 16 miliceconds. the exact same as when it's shifting normal. It's not droping timing and i don't know what to look at if it's geting rid of spark.