engineermike

That's an awfully bold statement to post, especially with zero data or proof.

Okay, I'll offer a counterpoint. The truth is, the 9 inch IS stronger than the D60. It uses a better designed system, and is more efficient, and is stronger. . . MUCH stronger.

Mike

SMOKKINU

iTrader: (4)

Ok, you want facts or proof without providing anything more then a website that looks like it was created to do nothing but bash the Dana 60 and make the ford 9 inch look like gods gift to the world....


The Ford 9 inch is obsolete, it is out of production, and losing popularity. So is the 12 bolt, but not so much so, yet.

Dana is still in production, used in NUMEROUS applications, and has a track record, just as strong, if not stronger, then fords 9 inch. Your site picks on the main caps, and how small they look compared to the 9 inch. Yet, i see no problems with the Main caps going bad, or breaking....

Then, there is the pinion issue, wow. So Ford put a 2nd bearing on the pinion gear. I guess that was so they could lose efficiency and lower performance, and reduce gas mileage....good work ford.

Then theres the ring gear tooth size, and thickness of the gear itself. A proper setup rear, with proper diameter ring gear for the application, should see no problems, regardless of thickness, or tooth size.

As for the size of the pinion, i guess Ford was going for the turkey drumstick/club look...


Many people opt for the lightening of ring gears to reduce weight.


I could go on, but i think ive proven my point....


the 9 inch is not a bad rear, its just had its hay day and is obsolete. I was actually going to get one, until I learned of the S60 from strange....

engineermike

Well this ought to be fun. . .

Did you bother to think about this statement for 2 seconds before posting it? Hey, I know what's better than the D60, 9", and 12 bolt!!! It's the 7.5" 10 bolt!!! They're still in production, plus they've made and sold way more of those than the D60, so it must be better!

Did it ever occur to you that they quit making the 9" becuase it's expensive to produce? Strength isn't the only consideration when OEM's are mass producing axles...

I don't think anyone who knows anything about cantilever versus between-bearings would EVER argue that the extra pinion bearing isn't better.

So a proper setup rear will fix all the strength shortcomings in D60 in housing geometry??? Explain how "properly setting up the rear" will defy the laws of physics, or even just basic geometry.

mzoomora

iTrader: (36)

When you a talking about the difference of bearings being 1/2" apart Vs being 3-4" apart the extra bearing is more of a neccesity rather than a benefit. I would bet if you were to actually measure deflection you would see little to no difference. With the bearings spread so far apart on the dana it is plenty stable. I am by no means bashing the 9", but like I said before that part is pretty much a wash. The exta bearing is better if the other 2 bearing have the same spacing, but as close as the 9" bearings are it isnt the great benefit you would think.

matts22

iTrader: (2)

Sorry, but I just don't get where you are coming from. You were arguing that the D60 is MUCH STRONGER, but in your last post, you kept referring to how "it shouldn't matter" and "if only it is properly set up" and stuff like that. Sounds like you are convinced that a 9 inch is stronger and you are simply arguing that a D60, if set up properly, should be just as strong (COMPLETELY different from your previous argument that the D60 is WAY STRONGER).

If you are saying that the D60, if set up correctly, is probably about the same in strength to a 9 inch, then I agree (listening to both sides of the argument and seeing facts supporting the argument).

If you are saying that the D60 is MUCH STRONGER, then you still haven't provided any evidence to back up your claim. I might agree with you if you provide evidence, but as of right now, the 9 inch looks to be superior.

mzoomora

iTrader: (36)

The 9" in stock form is a good rear. The thing that makes it a great rear is the aftermarket. Every aspect pretty much of an aftermaket 9" is improved over a stock unit, except for the gears themselves(and even they are made better, just original design still). The pinion and carrier bearings are larger, the pinion support is improved, the 3rd member itself is stronger, carriers are better, most people run more than 31 spline (most 9" car rears were 28, with the trucks and high end cars getting 31).
To say that the D60 is far stronger is not true when you are comparing aftermarket rears. Stock to stock, maybe, but an aftermarket 9" is almost over engineered for most of the cars here.
I am not really for either rear, I ma just putting out my experience with both rears from selling parts and building rears.

SMOKKINU

iTrader: (4)

I was referring to the gear setup with my statement about being setup properly and the thickness of the D60 gear vs. the 9'' gear thickness not really meaning anything. its the gring gear diameter that makes the strong gear.

the teeth on the 9'' are thicker because of the angle at which the pinion is set in the rearend to mate with the ring gear. early 9'' had problems because the teeth were too thin to mate with the ring gear and would fail...

the Dana 60 does not have this issue.

Most cars of today, are moving past the Ford 9''. It's out of production because its obsolete, not because its too expensive to make.... you can get a 9'' for a few hundred dollars more then a Dana 60.

Most oval track cars are moving towards Quality Machine quick change rears with Dana 60 pinion and ring gear sets and designs. The 9'' efficiency rating pales in comparison to other rears. That is its downfall....

engineermike

It's awfully convenient for you to assert that the 1 thing on the D60 that's bigger than the 9" is the 1 thing you decide "makes a strong gear". The fact of the matter is that every single aspect of the design makes a strong gear. Everything from helix angle, relative positions, materials, housing stiffness, bearing supports, agma quality, tooth thickness, the list is actually very long. . . affects the strength of the gear set.

What, exactly, makes the 9" obsolete? A Pentium 75 is obsolete. You haven't made a single point yet that has a shade of significance pointing toward a 9" being obsolete. Oh yea. . . I built my 9" for $600 less than you can get a D60.

This may be a bit of an overstatement. Some ultra-competitive NASCAR guys found a few tenths of a hp by going to 12 bolt gears in their 9" and so everyone thinks the 9" has poor efficiency. Go re-read RPOWU8's post.

Mike

cjmatt

iTrader: (4)

ive ran dana 60s and ford 9 inches in both of my old rock crawlers and have never broken either of them. the only difference was that the 9" changed gears quicker, but the dana had more ground clearance which is not an issue on an fbody where there will not be any rocks under the car to worry about. anyway, considering the fact that i will probably never break either of them, but i do a lot of high speed highway driving and need the strongest posi unit available as i refuse to run a locker, i will be going with a Dana S60. The 9" vs. D60 argument doesnt even matter because 95% of us wont break one. but i need a new driveshaft anyway, so this is a perfect time to snag one up. wish me luck.

ssvert99

iTrader: (26)

if 9"ford rears are obsolete and bad design and all this hype, then why do multi-million dollar Pro Stock teams run them...exclusively? those teams can have anything they want in their cars... and they all have 9"!

the fact of the matter is simple. the 10 bolt was well under-engineered for the heavy f-body cars. the aftermarket has supplied us with a few choices of replacements.
usually cost being the determining factor, the S60 is by far the best bang for the buck, and works well in the f-bodys with no clearance or ABS issues. the Ford 9" is a awesome rear end, but belongs in track cars, where the drop out design is the best for maintenance, and strength. and unless you're running heads up no power adder, or comp eliminator where strength isnt an issue, the efficency difference is so little, most of our cars will never see a difference.

SMOKKINU

iTrader: (4)

actually, most pro stock are starting to use rearends custom built and fabbed by a company called Quality Machine Inc. who bases their design, from the Dana 60.

mzoomora

iTrader: (36)

Pro stocks do not use a 9". They do use a 3rd member style rear, but it is not a 9". NASCAR does still use them though, one of the main reasons aside from strength, is the ease of changing ratios. They are the ones you can thank for all the different gears that are available, some within 2-3% of each other.
As far as the 10 bolt being under-engineered, thats not exactly true. For a completely stock car with stock tires the rear is fine, that is how the car was desgined. Sure some stock cars have broken rears, but not without a lot of abuse, and I have seen stock mustangs break rears. I do think they should have put a better rear in, especially when they changed to the 4th gen or at least when they started using LS1's. They probably didnt want to use a limited run rear for V8 cars, the car wasnt selling that great anyway.