Beefy 10 bolt?
11-29-2006, 06:11 PM
#21
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once you go to the track and get hooked on going to the track its only a matter of time til it goes out, i was lucky to have mine last a long time. do yourself a favor and get something that will handle the power instead of spending a penny on the 10 bolt.
11-29-2006, 08:31 PM
#22
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I had my buddy build my 10 bolt. I'm always at the track, and I don't drive anywhere near conservatively on the streets. Its lasted over a year now, the car is making 485+ rwhp, the 10 bolt has been fine. The car has rear suspension and drag radials as well, which are putting more stress on the rear end.
11-29-2006, 08:35 PM
#23
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Originally Posted by 01sscam
I had my buddy build my 10 bolt. I'm always at the track, and I don't drive anywhere near conservatively on the streets. Its lasted over a year now, the car is making 485+ rwhp, the 10 bolt has been fine. The car has rear suspension and drag radials as well, which are putting more stress on the rear end.
You should play the lottery or go to Vegas because you are one lucky SOB
11-29-2006, 08:43 PM
#24
Originally Posted by BIG_MIKE2005
This has got to be the stupidest thing ever posted about a 10-bolt.
There are a couple basic thing people NEED to listen to & understand.
A) Your 10-bolt WILL break if you race on it enough
B) A 6-speed will break one very quickly on a sticky tire
C) You can get a little time out of it by spending money on it, but its like pissin in the wind.
D) A auto will let the 10-bolt live a little longer
E) There is NO possible way to make a 10-bolt as strong as a 12-bolt or 9" rear no matter what parts you put in it or brand you use.
For you believers in the 10-bolt, you will realize what those of us who have broke a 10-bolt with minimal HP levels are tryin to get through your head. Some always think there is a way around spending the money on a good rear. The only way to do this is to drive it like a regular car. No burnouts, no racing, just cruising around town/highway.
How much you think it cost on average everytime you have to rebuild the 10-bolt if you take into consideration all factors.
1) cost of new or used posi in good condition(if its worn or broke)
2) new ring & pinion gear set
3) cost to have a shop professionally set it up
I would bet $500 on the low end, thats what it cost me & I got a used posi & used gear set.
Then take into consideration the cost of this if you beef it up:
4) aftermarket axles
5) stud kit
6) stronger bearing caps
7) rear girdle
By the time you rebuild it a couple times or add all the performance CRAP sold for it, your almost to the cost of a 12-bolt or 9". Not very bright to keep investing in something that WILL break, when you could take it easy for a while, save your money & buy a rear that will hold up to abuse.
I did this on street tires & bone stock, before my mods listed in my sig.
Point is, you can always polish a turd, but in the end its just a shiny turd. Don't **** away your money on crap that will break just b/c some magazine did a article on it. Listen to people who actually have experience with OUR cars & know what they are talkin about. It will save you lots of money & frusteration in the end.
There are a couple basic thing people NEED to listen to & understand.
A) Your 10-bolt WILL break if you race on it enough
B) A 6-speed will break one very quickly on a sticky tire
C) You can get a little time out of it by spending money on it, but its like pissin in the wind.
D) A auto will let the 10-bolt live a little longer
E) There is NO possible way to make a 10-bolt as strong as a 12-bolt or 9" rear no matter what parts you put in it or brand you use.
For you believers in the 10-bolt, you will realize what those of us who have broke a 10-bolt with minimal HP levels are tryin to get through your head. Some always think there is a way around spending the money on a good rear. The only way to do this is to drive it like a regular car. No burnouts, no racing, just cruising around town/highway.
How much you think it cost on average everytime you have to rebuild the 10-bolt if you take into consideration all factors.
1) cost of new or used posi in good condition(if its worn or broke)
2) new ring & pinion gear set
3) cost to have a shop professionally set it up
I would bet $500 on the low end, thats what it cost me & I got a used posi & used gear set.
Then take into consideration the cost of this if you beef it up:
4) aftermarket axles
5) stud kit
6) stronger bearing caps
7) rear girdle
By the time you rebuild it a couple times or add all the performance CRAP sold for it, your almost to the cost of a 12-bolt or 9". Not very bright to keep investing in something that WILL break, when you could take it easy for a while, save your money & buy a rear that will hold up to abuse.
I did this on street tires & bone stock, before my mods listed in my sig.
Point is, you can always polish a turd, but in the end its just a shiny turd. Don't **** away your money on crap that will break just b/c some magazine did a article on it. Listen to people who actually have experience with OUR cars & know what they are talkin about. It will save you lots of money & frusteration in the end.
11-29-2006, 09:59 PM
#25
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Originally Posted by jay_99z
You keep on believing that. When you are broke down and stranded at the strip you will be like the rest of us......trying to warn others.
You can spend $500 on gears and getting them setup. Another $500 for upgraded posi. $300 for axels. Now you have spent $1,300 on a damn 10 bolt. Another $200-$500 you would have had a 12 bolt or 9inch. I could care less if you want to waste your own money. Trying to convince others to spend 12bolt money on a 10bolt.......that's stupid.
You can spend $500 on gears and getting them setup. Another $500 for upgraded posi. $300 for axels. Now you have spent $1,300 on a damn 10 bolt. Another $200-$500 you would have had a 12 bolt or 9inch. I could care less if you want to waste your own money. Trying to convince others to spend 12bolt money on a 10bolt.......that's stupid.
You keep believing that bud. I know guys and there are guys that posted here that are running in the 10s with 10 bolts and not having any issues.
11-29-2006, 10:59 PM
#26
Originally Posted by 9formula4
You keep believing that bud. I know guys and there are guys that posted here that are running in the 10s with 10 bolts and not having any issues.
Believe what? That I broke a 10 bolt? Well that should be easy enough. I had to have it pushed back off the starting line to the pits. Then loaded onto a trailer to get home. Seemed real enough at the time.
You are correct. There are guys running tens with 10 bolts. There are also guys running 12's that broke them. Some get lucky. Many don't. So you can hope you are a lucky one or......be prepared in case you aren't.
11-30-2006, 01:23 AM
#27
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Another thing I thought about is trials and tribulations. I am DAMN sure there are MANY broken 12 bolts and 9" rears that people would say the same thing about them as you are about the 10 bolt.
It is about finding out wekanesses and fixing them. The main weaknesses have been addressed and by what I hear there are companies working on getting those fixed and coming out with a 10 bolt that is just as strong as the 12 and 9".
It is about finding out wekanesses and fixing them. The main weaknesses have been addressed and by what I hear there are companies working on getting those fixed and coming out with a 10 bolt that is just as strong as the 12 and 9".
11-30-2006, 02:37 AM
#28
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Originally Posted by 9formula4
You keep believing that bud. I know guys and there are guys that posted here that are running in the 10s with 10 bolts and not having any issues.
btw... how many dragsters do you know of using the 7.5 10bolt? as far as i know every single person that drag races competitively doesnt use the 7.5. they all use the 9" or 12 bolts. lets see...pro stock..9", pro mod...9", ops...9", the faster bracket cars...12 bolt/9"..hell some even use the 8.5 10 bolt but those were built to take abuse.
11-30-2006, 04:55 AM
#29
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haha all these statements coming from guys that probably never tried to beef up their 10 bolt, but conformed to buying the 12 or 9". Until you know for sure it can't be done then don't argue it.
11-30-2006, 06:30 AM
#30
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Just wanted to throw in my .02. I have a rear end cover (factory one was damaged and the person that did it bought me a TA performance one). I also have some 4.10's. All in the stock rear. Havent had any problems. That being said, my buddy got 2350 miles on his brand new 02WS6. Was pulling into Outback and snap, there she went.
And again, I have a buddy with an 02 Z28. Gears, and slicks, stock rear. Hes runnin consistant 11.1's. He has been dragging that car on that setup for well over a year now.
I think that it is luck of the draw. Just do what you want. If it breaks, oh well. Fix it. Just cuase I hear horror stories about people floating valves, breaking timing chains, bending pushrods, lifters chewing up cams. That didnt stop me from doing a H/C swap. **** happens. You race you break stuff. You drive a performance car, stuffs gonna go wrong.
And again, I have a buddy with an 02 Z28. Gears, and slicks, stock rear. Hes runnin consistant 11.1's. He has been dragging that car on that setup for well over a year now.
I think that it is luck of the draw. Just do what you want. If it breaks, oh well. Fix it. Just cuase I hear horror stories about people floating valves, breaking timing chains, bending pushrods, lifters chewing up cams. That didnt stop me from doing a H/C swap. **** happens. You race you break stuff. You drive a performance car, stuffs gonna go wrong.
11-30-2006, 09:26 AM
#32
My carrier looked just like yours, Big. Mine did that at 100k milles and the car was stock. Now, I'm 10 bolt #2 which is already leaking and a Strange on the way. Total rearend investment-
$1,200 for replacement 10 bolt
+$2,700 for the last rear I'll have to fool with
$3,900
I could have had a hell of NX system on my car by now but, that's just my 390,000 cents.
$1,200 for replacement 10 bolt
+$2,700 for the last rear I'll have to fool with
$3,900
I could have had a hell of NX system on my car by now but, that's just my 390,000 cents.
11-30-2006, 01:49 PM
#33
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Originally Posted by 9formula4
haha all these statements coming from guys that probably never tried to beef up their 10 bolt, but conformed to buying the 12 or 9". Until you know for sure it can't be done then don't argue it.
11-30-2006, 02:41 PM
#34
Originally Posted by 9formula4
and by what I hear there are companies working on getting those fixed and coming out with a 10 bolt that is just as strong as the 12 and 9".
Dude, you can't make chicken stew with chicken ****. The fact of the matter is 10 bolts are weak. 7.5 inch ring gear, you cant strengthen that nor modify it. 28 spline axles, there's a reason why there are no aftermarket 30, 31, 33, or 35 replacements. Aslo I think the housings are really weak. The little 7.5 can only handle so much. You cannot build 2 rear ends perfectly the same.
Some will get lucky, many will not. Its just a matter of time. Yes a girdle and moser clip axles may make it live longer, but it all depends on you're setup.
I myself wasted money on fixing and strenghting the 10 bolt in my 3rd gen. 4 gears, 2 axles, one carrier, and a twisted housing later the car is on hold til i can get a 9 inch or S60 in it. It survived 4200 trans brake launches half a season. I never sprayed it off the brake, I knew what would happen.
Also, once you starting having issues with a 10 bolt, it never stops. Its like the housings twist or distort after awhile.
Expect it to break, so if it does you're prepared.
Last edited by LilSlo1; 11-30-2006 at 02:49 PM.
11-30-2006, 03:13 PM
#35
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You say its just a matter of time before the 10 bolt goes, If you're racing or driving the car the way it should be driven then its just a matter of time before anything goes. I'm making 485+, the built 10 bolt hasn't broken, but my t-56 did, does that mean the t-56 sucks and they're a grenade. my buddy spun a rod bearing in his 98' z28, does that mean ls1's suck and are a grenade.
11-30-2006, 03:23 PM
#36
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^Yes, actually the T-56 as well as the 4l60e's do suck stock. My brother went thru 2 T-56's as well as many others on this board. However if you reinforce the T-56 it will withstand a lot of power, a 4l60e most likely needs to be completely replaced though.
No the LS1 does not suck, but anything can break at any given time. All we're trying to prevent here is dumping money into a lost cause, you will thank us in the end. Again, be prepared for the power that you plan to generate or get a AAA card. I wish I was a part of this board and found out this info before I learned the hard way.
No the LS1 does not suck, but anything can break at any given time. All we're trying to prevent here is dumping money into a lost cause, you will thank us in the end. Again, be prepared for the power that you plan to generate or get a AAA card. I wish I was a part of this board and found out this info before I learned the hard way.
Last edited by 01bird58; 11-30-2006 at 03:30 PM.
11-30-2006, 03:44 PM
#37
Within the 8 months I have had my M6 LS1 I have taken out 2 sets of gears and one carrier. I haven't even broke into the 12's yet because the car can't handle the launch to do it! Each time I have tried to step it up, I blow the rear end up. Lucky for me I can do my own setup, so it costs me nothing in labor, just gear lube and time. Still, spending 3 hours at a time swapping out gears is not my idea of fun. I'm going with an S60 come spring. Here's a pic of my carrier after the last time it blew up:
11-30-2006, 05:12 PM
#39
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Originally Posted by 9formula4
i will say it again. Even the strengthened 10 bolt is CLEARLY STATED to not be put behind an M6 because of the hard launches of the clutch drop.
Im only a little LT1 how much power can it make
11-30-2006, 06:08 PM
#40
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Originally Posted by Beasst8
**** happens. You race you break stuff. You drive a performance car, stuffs gonna go wrong.
Originally Posted by jay_99z
Some get lucky. Many don't. So you can hope you are a lucky one or......be prepared in case you aren't.
