cyroed or micronited gear sets
12-21-2006, 10:00 PM
#21
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Real world ??
Uhm... sure. Ivan Stewarts Trophy Truck effort (circa 96-02), Juan Fangio's CART effort (96-97), several SCORE Pro Trucks, several Land Speed Record efforts, ST-10's, Muncie's, Jerico's, Jeffco's... and I know of some other formidable companies that use it exclusively in the T-56's and T-56 transaxles that they use. Kinda like Katech and Pratt&Miller...
We used cryo and REM isotropic finishing. The cryo stands for itself and the REM does wonders in many different areas. Temperature, life cycle, operational resonant frequency, fluid life... STRENGTH... and the list goes on.
Its worth it in my opinon.
Uhm... sure. Ivan Stewarts Trophy Truck effort (circa 96-02), Juan Fangio's CART effort (96-97), several SCORE Pro Trucks, several Land Speed Record efforts, ST-10's, Muncie's, Jerico's, Jeffco's... and I know of some other formidable companies that use it exclusively in the T-56's and T-56 transaxles that they use. Kinda like Katech and Pratt&Miller...
We used cryo and REM isotropic finishing. The cryo stands for itself and the REM does wonders in many different areas. Temperature, life cycle, operational resonant frequency, fluid life... STRENGTH... and the list goes on.
Its worth it in my opinon.
12-21-2006, 10:09 PM
#22
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Originally Posted by chicane
Real world ??
Uhm... sure. Ivan Stewarts Trophy Truck effort (circa 96-02), Juan Fangio's CART effort (96-97), several SCORE Pro Trucks, several Land Speed Record efforts, ST-10's, Muncie's, Jerico's, Jeffco's... and I know of some other formidable companies that use it exclusively in the T-56's and T-56 transaxles that they use. Kinda like Katech and Pratt&Miller...
We used cryo and REM isotropic finishing. The cryo stands for itself and the REM does wonders in many different areas. Temperature, life cycle, operational resonant frequency, fluid life... STRENGTH... and the list goes on.
Its worth it in my opinon.
Uhm... sure. Ivan Stewarts Trophy Truck effort (circa 96-02), Juan Fangio's CART effort (96-97), several SCORE Pro Trucks, several Land Speed Record efforts, ST-10's, Muncie's, Jerico's, Jeffco's... and I know of some other formidable companies that use it exclusively in the T-56's and T-56 transaxles that they use. Kinda like Katech and Pratt&Miller...
We used cryo and REM isotropic finishing. The cryo stands for itself and the REM does wonders in many different areas. Temperature, life cycle, operational resonant frequency, fluid life... STRENGTH... and the list goes on.
Its worth it in my opinon.
12-22-2006, 02:53 AM
#23
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If you are looking to do anything to the differential... I would just concentrate on the gear set and the pinion yoke. Definately micro/rem and cryo the ring and pinion... and definately cryo the yoke. It however, doesnt need micro/rem... it wouldnt yield anthing for the cost and time.
If you wanted to split hairs... I would cryo and micro/rem just the internal gears of the differential itself. Now, if I had a chance to play around... I might cryo the differential case... but really, there is no applicable reason to do that.
Cryo... just about anything. Is it worth it ?? Could be.
Micro/REM anything that is a loaded or frictional loading surface. Is it worth it ?? Yes.
What ever I would use micro/rem on, I would cryo. But not necessarily the other way around. The best thing to do is call the three listed below and allow them to explain the individual process and what they can do for your specific needs:
http://www.performancemetal.net (specifically specializing in transmission isotropic finishes)
http://www.hrpworld.com (they do anything isotropic)
http://www.evansperformance.com (specializing in "cryo-rem"; cryo and isotropic)
Its NOT a coating. But that has been covered... I just wanted to re-iterate that point. 
Possibly because your 3100hp car isnt in an "endurance" application, whereas it WOULD benifit from these processes. By endurance I am also implying street and road course type use... not a short use application like drag racing.
The lack of parts brakage might just be related to the stated vehicle chassis weight as well... and possibly, the specific materials and amount of impact loading that those parts in question might experience.
You are an injuneer, like many of us... so, I'll throw down this as to give you a better idea of its use in this market:
The REM process has become a cost effective alternative to an engineered machined finish in automotive applications where surface finish, increased wear and friction reduction are important considerations. The REM process is an isotropic surface finishing process that produces a non-linear, low Ra that improves wear characteristics and reduces friction. It is a chemical / mechanical process that sequentially removes the peaks of a ground, cut or honed finish while leaving the valleys unaffected. The end result... is a dramatically improved surface finish with insignificant dimensional change of the component itself. It will also yield an increase in component life with a flatter contact surface which distributes the load over a larger area and inhibits the formation of stress risers.
How about some simple math ?? REM finishing may offer many advantages, however, even a 30% decrease in losses in a spur or helical gearset is not a large advantage. Helical gears with conventional finish are about 98% efficient, so losses are 2%. A 30% decrease in losses means losss will be 2% x (1 - .3) = 1.4%. Efficiency has increased from 98% to 98.6%. If input power is 200 h.p., output will increase from 196 h.p. to 197.2 h.p. Now use the power production numbers of your specific engine combination and you can see where its going.
At the very least this is the least inexpensive insurance policy you can buy.
You want a good read (or three) ?? Well... I just happen to have a few links from work that may enlighten some and brain fry others. There is even an article that deals with the specifics of this process and hypoid / helical gear sets.
The Influence of Roughness on Gear Surface Fatigue
AMPTIAC
Surface Fatigue Lives of Case-Carburized Gear With an Improved Finish
If you wanted to split hairs... I would cryo and micro/rem just the internal gears of the differential itself. Now, if I had a chance to play around... I might cryo the differential case... but really, there is no applicable reason to do that.
Cryo... just about anything. Is it worth it ?? Could be.
Micro/REM anything that is a loaded or frictional loading surface. Is it worth it ?? Yes.
What ever I would use micro/rem on, I would cryo. But not necessarily the other way around. The best thing to do is call the three listed below and allow them to explain the individual process and what they can do for your specific needs:
http://www.performancemetal.net (specifically specializing in transmission isotropic finishes)
http://www.hrpworld.com (they do anything isotropic)
http://www.evansperformance.com (specializing in "cryo-rem"; cryo and isotropic)
Originally Posted by alamantia
Why would you coat gear sets? What possible gain of any type would you ever expect to obtain from coating your gears?
Originally Posted by alamantia
...cause maybe im doing something wrong using un-cryo gears in our 3100hp car
The lack of parts brakage might just be related to the stated vehicle chassis weight as well... and possibly, the specific materials and amount of impact loading that those parts in question might experience.
You are an injuneer, like many of us... so, I'll throw down this as to give you a better idea of its use in this market:
The REM process has become a cost effective alternative to an engineered machined finish in automotive applications where surface finish, increased wear and friction reduction are important considerations. The REM process is an isotropic surface finishing process that produces a non-linear, low Ra that improves wear characteristics and reduces friction. It is a chemical / mechanical process that sequentially removes the peaks of a ground, cut or honed finish while leaving the valleys unaffected. The end result... is a dramatically improved surface finish with insignificant dimensional change of the component itself. It will also yield an increase in component life with a flatter contact surface which distributes the load over a larger area and inhibits the formation of stress risers.
How about some simple math ?? REM finishing may offer many advantages, however, even a 30% decrease in losses in a spur or helical gearset is not a large advantage. Helical gears with conventional finish are about 98% efficient, so losses are 2%. A 30% decrease in losses means losss will be 2% x (1 - .3) = 1.4%. Efficiency has increased from 98% to 98.6%. If input power is 200 h.p., output will increase from 196 h.p. to 197.2 h.p. Now use the power production numbers of your specific engine combination and you can see where its going.
At the very least this is the least inexpensive insurance policy you can buy.
You want a good read (or three) ?? Well... I just happen to have a few links from work that may enlighten some and brain fry others. There is even an article that deals with the specifics of this process and hypoid / helical gear sets.
The Influence of Roughness on Gear Surface Fatigue
AMPTIAC
Surface Fatigue Lives of Case-Carburized Gear With an Improved Finish
Last edited by chicane; 12-22-2006 at 03:07 AM. Reason: Grammatical errors... of course.
01-03-2007, 09:13 PM
#26
I had my gears Mikronited. They still make a fair bit of noise, but they are Richmond 4.10s in a 10 bolt, which I was told will make a lot of noise regardless.
Due to mrr23's testing, I am hoping for the same results. I am going to be hitting my car with nitrous, and wouldn't mind putting some drag radials on someday.
Due to mrr23's testing, I am hoping for the same results. I am going to be hitting my car with nitrous, and wouldn't mind putting some drag radials on someday.
01-03-2007, 10:42 PM
#27
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Came across this video from SEMA on Streetfire...its all about Mikroniting gears.
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/e...7100245b61.htm
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/e...7100245b61.htm
