Stronger 10 bolt ???
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From: Sierra Vista, AZ
Stronger 10 bolt ??? Ok, let me display my ignorance on rear diffs. We BIG CHEVY madmen can retro fit 12 bolts and, God forgive me for typing this...FORD 9 and 8.8in rearends into our cars, but we can't buy different spools, lockers or anything to beef up our genetically correct cars??? What exactly is the weak point of the 10bolt? If I cut my tubes and weld them onto a F*** 8.8in, then order new 33 or 31 spline axles, what makes this so much stronger than my 10 bolt? I know everything has it's limits, but I am curious as to what exactly is the weak point on this 10bolt and if there is any items that can be installed, spool, axles, that will raise its handling power and reliability. TIA.
The Bull
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From: Grand Rapids, MI
Re: Stronger 10 bolt ??? From what I've seen it's actually related a lot to the size (not ratio but physical size) of gear that goes in the rear end. I think a great many of us have fragged a Torsen differential only to upgrade to a Auburn Pro or some equivalent. But what doesn't change is the ring and pinion sizes. So once you upgrade to a new diff or spool you still have the same old gears in there. Not to mention the 28 spline axles and c-clips that go with it. So I've seen a really good 10 bolt setup and the failure moves to the ring gear or axles after that.
In the 12 bolt the ring and pinion gear are much beefier. They can get away with much larger teeth engagements and the axles come in more sizes. The fact that you don't have c-clips is a good thing too. When a c-clip axle breaks it takes out the break backing plate and destroys your rotor(s). With the 12 bolt style this is less likely, possible but less likely.
I really can't give you a better argument than component strength in the larger rear ends.
In the 12 bolt the ring and pinion gear are much beefier. They can get away with much larger teeth engagements and the axles come in more sizes. The fact that you don't have c-clips is a good thing too. When a c-clip axle breaks it takes out the break backing plate and destroys your rotor(s). With the 12 bolt style this is less likely, possible but less likely.
I really can't give you a better argument than component strength in the larger rear ends.
On The Tree
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From: Baltimore, MD
Re: Stronger 10 bolt ??? There aren't any places that sell, like, billet gears and C-Clips, or something like that?
Or is that what they are stock? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
Or is that what they are stock? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
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From: Sierra Vista, AZ
Re: Stronger 10 bolt ??? I see the light <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> Dumb Q maybe, but are the higher number splined axles better? e.g. 33 stronger than 28? Also, is it safer to say that how hard you launch is more of a detrimental factor to the torsen than torque itself, like running slicks and launching at 3000rpms on a sticky track with near stock engine is worse than launching on streets (spinning like hell) with an assload of torque? tm.
Teching In
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From: space city
Re: Stronger 10 bolt ??? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by CAT3:
...are the higher number splined axles better?...is it safer to say that how hard you launch is more of a detrimental factor to the torsen than torque itself, like running slicks...?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">yes, more splines=stronger
yes, i emailed zexel-torsen, and the guy wrote that slicks are bad for the torsen because they don't break loose, so it can't transfer torque to the other wheel, so the torque of both wheels somehow combines and there's some sort of shock load and it just breaks them.
i didn't quite get all of it, but it sounded like torsen+slicks=bad!
i came here specifically to ask if anyone was running slicks with a torsen (WS-6, SS, firehawk), and if so, how is it holding up and how hard do you launch?
thanks!
...are the higher number splined axles better?...is it safer to say that how hard you launch is more of a detrimental factor to the torsen than torque itself, like running slicks...?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">yes, more splines=stronger
yes, i emailed zexel-torsen, and the guy wrote that slicks are bad for the torsen because they don't break loose, so it can't transfer torque to the other wheel, so the torque of both wheels somehow combines and there's some sort of shock load and it just breaks them.
i didn't quite get all of it, but it sounded like torsen+slicks=bad!
i came here specifically to ask if anyone was running slicks with a torsen (WS-6, SS, firehawk), and if so, how is it holding up and how hard do you launch?
thanks!
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From: Sierra Vista, AZ
Re: Stronger 10 bolt ??? BLU93GT, Thanks for the info. I've been running my friends ET Streets, 26x11.5x16, no problems so far, I launch from 1500 to 2000. My best 60' was 1.6 on them at 2000rpm. No noise, or anything. Only tried ET Drags once, and seemed a lil to tight. Charlie.
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Re: Stronger 10 bolt ??? You can modify your rear end so it doesn't use c-clips. This might be my winter project on my spare rear. If it goes well I'll do it to my current rear end. I will cut off the housing ends and have a bolt-in style housing installed. Strange offers the housing ends for almost any rear and application. I also found out that you can upgrade the U-joint to a much stronger one. I'll look into axles and such also when I have some free time.
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Re: Stronger 10 bolt ??? 315 Nittos, and a 2500 RPM launch left me with a twisted axle and a destroyed Torsen..... The things are junk.. The A4 guys can get alot of life out of them, the M6 guys are just playing the waiting game....
Teching In
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From: space city
Re: Stronger 10 bolt ??? 1.6 60's launching at 2000 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> man, that is freakin' amazing!!!
how are you doing that?
when you say the ET drags were "tight", does that mean the ET streets ARE slipping a little? according to the torsen guy, that's what they need.
you ARE running the torsen, right? i just assumed you were because you mentioned it in the 1st post, but i thought only the SS's had them...
<small>[ October 26, 2002, 12:46 PM: Message edited by: Blu93GT ]</small>
how are you doing that?
when you say the ET drags were "tight", does that mean the ET streets ARE slipping a little? according to the torsen guy, that's what they need.
you ARE running the torsen, right? i just assumed you were because you mentioned it in the 1st post, but i thought only the SS's had them...
<small>[ October 26, 2002, 12:46 PM: Message edited by: Blu93GT ]</small>
Teching In
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From: space city
Re: Stronger 10 bolt ??? A4 & M6 being 4-speed auto & 6-speed manual trannies?
how much torque do you guys MAKE at 2500?! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />
i launch about 4000, where i'm at peak torque of about 325 - at 2500 i only got about 285 to the wheels... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Sad]" src="gr_sad.gif" />
how much torque do you guys MAKE at 2500?! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />
i launch about 4000, where i'm at peak torque of about 325 - at 2500 i only got about 285 to the wheels... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Sad]" src="gr_sad.gif" />
Launching!
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From: Chesnee, SC
Re: Stronger 10 bolt ??? Well this A4 guy got 1 run out of mine with ET Streets. I have a 98 with ST3500 stall launched and twisted both axles and housings, posi unit went out also. Had one good run though <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> A4 guys will probably be fine as long as no stall or very little stall is used or ET's
Viper
Viper
Re: Stronger 10 bolt ??? With an A4 they can last a long time, lots of 1.4 60's here on a stock rear end/torsen with 4.10s. With an M6 they tend to break the ring gear. Wasting money on axles, a spool, and cclip elimination will not make the ring gear any stronger.
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From: Sierra Vista, AZ
Re: Stronger 10 bolt ??? Almost forgot I had this post.
I was told the Z-28's had the zexel too, but who cares, it's still a 10 bolt (until it breaks, then its about 16 bolts, and a grip of twisted shaant-hehehe).
Blu93GT-yes, the drags didnt want to spin as much and i didnt want to blow shaant up so I didnt force the car into 'em. Streets on the other hand the car loves, at 2k, the lights drop and so does the pedal. My foot has been finely tuned to squeeze the pedal with the ET Streets, it's easier to feel the PNR(point of no return) coming up and stay right before it. Wish I could launchon the sh*tty Eagle GSA's, best so far is 1.8X.
Viper, Damn, that's f**ked up. I would be a little hurt if my car let me down like that just, well, my wallet would be traumatized. I will be getting new nitt's, hell i never ran any nitto's yet, before the Nov 9th, I hope everything holds together, hell if it takes from the ET's I don't see why it wouldn't.
Absolutely no interest in the C-clip eliminator. I'd rather wait and get the 12 bolt, Hell-yeah.
thanks for the sharing. Charlie.
I was told the Z-28's had the zexel too, but who cares, it's still a 10 bolt (until it breaks, then its about 16 bolts, and a grip of twisted shaant-hehehe).
Blu93GT-yes, the drags didnt want to spin as much and i didnt want to blow shaant up so I didnt force the car into 'em. Streets on the other hand the car loves, at 2k, the lights drop and so does the pedal. My foot has been finely tuned to squeeze the pedal with the ET Streets, it's easier to feel the PNR(point of no return) coming up and stay right before it. Wish I could launchon the sh*tty Eagle GSA's, best so far is 1.8X.
Viper, Damn, that's f**ked up. I would be a little hurt if my car let me down like that just, well, my wallet would be traumatized. I will be getting new nitt's, hell i never ran any nitto's yet, before the Nov 9th, I hope everything holds together, hell if it takes from the ET's I don't see why it wouldn't.
Absolutely no interest in the C-clip eliminator. I'd rather wait and get the 12 bolt, Hell-yeah.
thanks for the sharing. Charlie.