How durable is the Automatic in the new Camaro?
12-06-2008 | 05:38 AM
#21
Launching!
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 260
Likes: 0
From: Viginia Beach, VA
Odd my auto ran 12.9 bone stock, and so have several others. Your information is flawed and obviuosly based upon another era. Maybe get current and come back to the discussion when you have factual information that is current to the 4L60E and the new 6L80E transmissions.
12-06-2008 | 10:07 AM
#22
I'll take the bet that the A6's will be faster than the M6 cars and here are my two reasons, not trying to be jerk about it either:
-Wheel hop. This will be much worse with a stick car, so the M6 guys will be trying to figure out how how high you can come out and how hard you can shift 1-2 without getting more wheelhop or spinning. Have you driven an IRS C5 or C6?
-Most M6 guys won't be super abusive to their M6 cars, so most folks will try to avoid breaking the rear end. I don't doubt that Evan Smith will at some point get put behind the wheel of a car, but he told me when he ran that 12.98 in a 4th gen (told me this at an NMRA race in the press box) that he slipped the clitch out at a pretty high rpm like 4500 and he was not driving it like it was his.
-Wheel hop. This will be much worse with a stick car, so the M6 guys will be trying to figure out how how high you can come out and how hard you can shift 1-2 without getting more wheelhop or spinning. Have you driven an IRS C5 or C6?
-Most M6 guys won't be super abusive to their M6 cars, so most folks will try to avoid breaking the rear end. I don't doubt that Evan Smith will at some point get put behind the wheel of a car, but he told me when he ran that 12.98 in a 4th gen (told me this at an NMRA race in the press box) that he slipped the clitch out at a pretty high rpm like 4500 and he was not driving it like it was his.
12-07-2008 | 07:59 PM
#27
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,799
Likes: 16
From: St.Charles MO
The Veyron (and other exotics) don't come with a conventional auto (torque converter) for a good reason.
12-07-2008 | 08:02 PM
#28
For fourth gen F-bodys: Stock for stock the M6 WILL out run the auto in an even good race. Mainly because of the gearing. Now throw a stall and steeper gears into the auto and its game over for the M6 without gears. I'm sure the new 5th gens will have great automatic transmissions. Personally I will never own an automatic sports car/muscle car, it just takes alot of the fun out of it IMO.
12-07-2008 | 09:34 PM
#29
The gf laughed at me when I mentioned (maybe) getting an auto. Something about my chick calling me out stuck in my mind hahaha Still driving my manual and patiently awaiting the Camaro SS with LS3/TR6060.
12-08-2008 | 09:13 AM
#30
TECH Fanatic
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,087
Likes: 0
From: Cibolo Tx
My cousin's wife has a 98 Corvette with an auto;I doubt her left foot has ever rested on a clutch pedal. That car(or an f-body) w/o a manual just doesn't seem right. Quickness of shifing is only one thing to consider.
12-08-2008 | 02:36 PM
#32
Anyways, the amount of torque it should take before being an issue cannot be determined at this time as it is too new. But you want an actual range so there are G8s and vettes at 600-700 whp without common issues yet.
12-08-2008 | 07:00 PM
#34
12-09-2008 | 08:39 PM
#35
fair enough. As already stated, the 6L80 was tested BY GM using their trucks and rated to mid-400 ft-lbs. AFAIK GM's 6spd auto was developed and first implemented with the Duramax diesel, then altered to put into C6 vettes, then dropped into the G8 GT, and now being used in the new Camaro.... etc.
Anyways, the amount of torque it should take before being an issue cannot be determined at this time as it is too new. But you want an actual range so there are G8s and vettes at 600-700 whp without common issues yet.
Anyways, the amount of torque it should take before being an issue cannot be determined at this time as it is too new. But you want an actual range so there are G8s and vettes at 600-700 whp without common issues yet.
I'm not sure if I'll be getting one. Probably will, so auto, or manual.. I didn't think I'd be racing the 01 I bought new, but look at what happened, lol. I'd probably get the manual for the fun factor, and for the fuel economy & just keep the 01 for race..
What is the top gear ratio in the auto vs manual? Meaning 6th gear & rear end gear?
12-09-2008 | 08:57 PM
#36
On The Tree
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 165
Likes: 0
From: Pendleton, Indiana
How about 2,000+ runs I wouldn't worry one bit about the auto being strong enough, I have a 04 SSR that weighs in at 4880 with gas and me in it, Now to run that through a 1/4 mile is hard on the tranny right, Well I have well over 2,000 passes, That is over 2,000 1/4 runs, How hard 1.60 60 ft. and 11.50's et so I am not taking it easy, So a LS1 and built 4L60 and I drive it all the time to boot
12-10-2008 | 03:12 PM
#37
Thread Starter
TECH Resident
iTrader: (3)
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 963
Likes: 1
From: Any dragstrip any time
I wouldn't worry one bit about the auto being strong enough, I have a 04 SSR that weighs in at 4880 with gas and me in it, Now to run that through a 1/4 mile is hard on the tranny right, Well I have well over 2,000 passes, That is over 2,000 1/4 runs, How hard 1.60 60 ft. and 11.50's et so I am not taking it easy, So a LS1 and built 4L60 and I drive it all the time to boot
12-10-2008 | 05:42 PM
#38
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 566
Likes: 0
From: Dallas
Wow, there's some serious misinformation about the 6L80/6L90.
1. Super/hyper exotics still have clutches in there; but they are automated manual transmissions or sequential boxes. There is no converter in there, there are no belts, and no clutch packs within the transmission.
2. The 6L80/90E was NOT designed for the 6.6L duramax, as that engine would grenade the gearbox in very short order. Instead, the 6L90 has a MAX of 520 input ft. lbs, which they designed so they could put the baby d-max and LSA behind it. The 6L90 comes in the new CTS-V and the gas 2500/3500's.
3. The 6L80/90 are clutch-to-clutch, which means that before you start getting super high horsepower cars using it, that the timing of the clutch-to-clutch action has to be perfect. See the Allison transmissions in the pulling trucks. I've noticed an uptick in sticking built TH400 and built 4L8x's behind Cummins and Dmax's so that reliability of the truck is maintained during the pass.
4. Like any automatic, you'll still have less efficiency than a manual gearbox.
The jury is still out on these transmissions. They cost an arm and a leg to have built up. It'll take a few years more before the fail points are well known and mods for it cheap and plentiful.
1. Super/hyper exotics still have clutches in there; but they are automated manual transmissions or sequential boxes. There is no converter in there, there are no belts, and no clutch packs within the transmission.
2. The 6L80/90E was NOT designed for the 6.6L duramax, as that engine would grenade the gearbox in very short order. Instead, the 6L90 has a MAX of 520 input ft. lbs, which they designed so they could put the baby d-max and LSA behind it. The 6L90 comes in the new CTS-V and the gas 2500/3500's.
3. The 6L80/90 are clutch-to-clutch, which means that before you start getting super high horsepower cars using it, that the timing of the clutch-to-clutch action has to be perfect. See the Allison transmissions in the pulling trucks. I've noticed an uptick in sticking built TH400 and built 4L8x's behind Cummins and Dmax's so that reliability of the truck is maintained during the pass.
4. Like any automatic, you'll still have less efficiency than a manual gearbox.
The jury is still out on these transmissions. They cost an arm and a leg to have built up. It'll take a few years more before the fail points are well known and mods for it cheap and plentiful.
12-10-2008 | 07:19 PM
#39
ill be finding out what the 6l80 trans can take as soon as i get my camaro, the stroker engine and a 3000 stall plus some spray should put it to the test. if the 6l80 doesnt hold up the 6l90 trans should not be too hard to swap in, it is only a little bit longer than the 6l80 trans
i dont think these trans too expensive, i have seen them on e-bay for $1000-$1500
another guy at our shop had a 6l80 apart for a leak and the internals looked way stronger and clutch's were huge compared to a 4l60e and those can be built to go 10's easy, i built my own 60e and went 10's no problems for years
i dont think these trans too expensive, i have seen them on e-bay for $1000-$1500
another guy at our shop had a 6l80 apart for a leak and the internals looked way stronger and clutch's were huge compared to a 4l60e and those can be built to go 10's easy, i built my own 60e and went 10's no problems for years
12-10-2008 | 09:14 PM
#40
On The Tree
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 165
Likes: 0
From: Pendleton, Indiana
Yes it is super charged and the tranny is full built by RPM, Here is a video of a hard run,
http://s3.photobucket.com/albums/y80...R_1169_Run.flv